Congo or not?

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Pieje

It's indeed similar to Lokele knives but the general shape of the blade and its decoration point towards the BENGE.

Check this old thread for an example of such BENGE sword in the book "Panga na visu".
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16673

First quarter of the 20th century seems ok.
Handle material seems definitely ivory to me.

Hello Pieje, thank you for your reply and link. As you say the blade shape and decoration on the Benge sword are identical even the two small holes which I thought represented the snake`s eyes, I find it confusing to differentiate between the varius tribal weapons when the blade shapes are so similar but I think the decoration seems to clinch this one as Benge. Thanks again for your interest.
Regards
Miguel

[Ian]

Miguel:

That is definitely elephant ivory on the hilt. The criss-cross pattern in cross section is typical of ivory.

As far as a snake or lizard, I can see the general form of a reptile but it may be something else. It's always hard to tell with these geometric shapes and without knowledge of the culture and its artistic preferences I would say it is difficult to be certain what we are looking at.

Ian

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Ian

Miguel:

That is definitely elephant ivory on the hilt. The criss-cross pattern in cross section is typical of ivory.

As far as a snake or lizard, I can see the general form of a reptile but it may be something else. It's always hard to tell with these geometric shapes and without knowledge of the culture and its artistic preferences I would say it is difficult to be certain what we are looking at.

Ian

Hi Ian, thanks for your reply, it would seem that everyone is in agreement that the hilt is ivory. It also appears that the origin of this weapon is Benge due to the blade shape and particularly the decoration which I am sure now is purely decoration and not meant to represent a snake or lizard, it is just that it follows the shape of the blade which makes it appear such.
I have wondered about the size of the hilt as it is to small for my hand. The original owner must have had a small hand.
Do you know of any othe reference works on African weapons written in English besides Christopher Spring`s work as all the references on these weapons seem mainly German, French and Belgian works, if so I would be grateful if you would let me know.
Regards
Miguel

[mariusgmioc]

It is as I suspected: elephant ivory.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

It is as I suspected: elephant ivory.

Go to the front of the class
Regards
Miguel

[kronckew]

watch out for CITES. the touchy feely brigade will be out to get you if you ever need to ship it thru a national border or sell it, you will need proof it is antique, only a note from the original elephant is acceptable to them. maybe not even then. see recent thread here on desecration of antique weapons that had antique ivory by those wonderfully informed people at the UK border force for bonham's.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by kronckew

watch out for CITES. the touchy feely brigade will be out to get you if you ever need to ship it thru a national border or sell it, you will need proof it is antique, only a note from the original elephant is acceptable to them. maybe not even then. see recent thread here on desecration of antique weapons that had antique ivory by those wonderfully informed people at the UK border force for bonham's.

Thanks for the reminder, its getting pretty ridiculous here in the UK regarding all types of edged weapons antique or otherwise. In the past we were one of the worst offenders of Elephant hunting. I deplor the indiscriminate slaughter of any animal but it seems senseless to me to destroy works of art made from the ivory of an animal killed 50, a hundred or more years ago because you cant prove it to their satisfaction,
Regards
Miguel

[Pieje]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Do you know of any othe reference works on African weapons written in English besides Christopher Spring`s work as all the references on these weapons seem mainly German, French and Belgian works, if so I would be grateful if you would let me know.
Regards
Miguel

There are indeed only a few books written in English.
This is a good one, not a thick book, but also not expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/African-Metal.../dp/B001E2D01E

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Pieje

There are indeed only a few books written in English.
This is a good one, not a thick book, but also not expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/African-Metal.../dp/B001E2D01E

Thanks Pieje I am indebted to you and will endeavour to purchase this book.
Regards
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Pieje

There are indeed only a few books written in English.
This is a good one, not a thick book, but also not expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/African-Metal.../dp/B001E2D01E

Hi Pieje, I forgot to ask if you know the location in the Congo of the Benge people and if they have another name. I have spent some time searching for them and although the name appears that is all no other information about them. That is why I am wondering if they have another name as some other ethnic groups in he Congo have.
Regards
Miguel