Pandur saber

[Waltie]

I have found what I think may be a Karabela(?) Hungarian Pandur saber in my grandfather's estate.It has a figure of Pandur on the blade. Since I am not a collector I do not know what to do with it and would appreciate some direction.

[fernando]

Welcome to the forum, Waltie.
You have missed uploading pictures of your item.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for joining us here Waltie.
It would be great to see images of your sabre. From your description I would note here that the image of a 'pandour' on the blade indicates it is not a genuine pandour sword, but one with that motif placed commemoratively. These were typically for cavalry officers in Eastern Europe in the third quarter to latter 18th century. The original Pandour units were disbanded in the 1740s as they had become renegade in their auxiliary duties with Austrian forces.
Still their effectiveness was renowned and various armies began adding similar auxiliary forces to their standing units, often with considerable though more controlled use.
We cannot discuss values here, however we will be glad to add research comments and information here with photos when added, and perhaps offer other suggestions privately.

[Jim McDougall]

Kinda hope he comes back. This is a most interesting topic.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Kinda hope he comes back. This is a most interesting topic.

Perhaps you kinda frightened him .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Perhaps you kinda frightened him .

Oops! Guess that happens a lot

[kronckew]

OK, so we need a photo of a clarabelle

{i may have mispelled that tho}

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

OK, so we need a photo of a clarabelle

{i may have mispelled that tho}

LOL!!!!

I have no earthly idea what this means, but good to see cartoon silliness anytime.

[kronckew]

clarabelle would be pronounced klarabela, or pretty near if you include the silent 'e' USA version which is normally pronounced in european languages.
of course the 'L' 'mistook' makes all the difference.

(people always leave off the 'e' in my surname which is pronounced (roughly) as krroonkeh with a soft short 'e' sound at the end, not kronk. the w is for my given name 'wayne' - i was "kroncke, w" for a long while in the military. computers don't like the comma in user names tho, and US military and US computers, as well as US residents generally have no idea what an umlaut is, so they leave it off.

regards,

Wayne Kröncke

p.s. - now that the OP thinks we are completely nuts, mebbe he'll post a picture of the carabelle, er, karabela.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kronckew

clarabelle would be pronounced klarabela, or pretty near if you include the silent 'e' USA version which is normally pronounced in european languages.
of course the 'L' 'mistook' makes all the difference.

(people always leave off the 'e' in my surname which is pronounced (roughly) as krroonkeh with a soft short 'e' sound at the end, not kronk. the w is for my given name 'wayne' - i was "kroncke, w" for a long while in the military. computers don't like the comma in user names tho, and US military and US computers, as well as US residents generally have no idea what an umlaut is, so they leave it off.

regards,

Wayne Kröncke

p.s. - now that the OP thinks we are completely nuts, mebbe he'll post a picture of the carabelle, er, karabela.

Wayne, your clever wit and humor is priceless!!!!! Outstanding pun.
Also, thank you for the explanation on your most intriguing name, and insight into these linguistic phenomena......a pet topic of mine.

So we see, the pandur swords were often 'klarabella' !!!!
On that note, years ago a close friend and I while studying this topic used to say 'pandurs' ????.....I thought them was bears!!!!

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

..
On that note, years ago a close friend and I while studying this topic used to say 'pandurs' ????.....I thought them was bears!!!!

yes, they be black & white pandur bars...i think this (attached) one's mum was foollin' around with a griz tho.

i also seem to recall frankie avalon (attached too) wearing a pandur fur cap in 'the alamo' - 1960. black with a nice white stripe down the middle.

[fernando]

Let them children play .

[Jim McDougall]

OK, back to skeerin' people!

[Jim McDougall]

Well it seems that this most interesting topic, that of the mysterious 'pandours' of Europe, and their subsequent influence on European armies in the second half of the 18th century and beyond, has come up with an unmounted sword blade just posted by K Maddock.

While I did not mention that on the thread as yet, I wanted to note that although this topic brought some levity here, it is a most serious and fascinating subject in military history.

The blade he has posted has an etched military style motif of likely Napoleonic period, and the motif carries a figure of the mid 18th c. resembling pandour styles.

Check it out.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well it seems that this most interesting topic, that of the mysterious 'pandours' of Europe, and their subsequent influence on European armies in the second half of the 18th century and beyond, has come up with an unmounted sword blade just posted by K Maddock.

While I did not mention that on the thread as yet, I wanted to note that although this topic brought some levity here, it is a most serious and fascinating subject in military history.

The blade he has posted has an etched military style motif of likely Napoleonic period, and the motif carries a figure of the mid 18th c. resembling pandour styles.

Check it out.

link?

[fernando]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21736