On the Origins of the so-called Berber Sabres

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What is the relationship in the 90 degree bend in the scabbard to Ethiopian style? at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21715

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim,
You have astutely keyed in on a number of elements in these various loosely connected forms. These so called 'Berber' sabres are actually believed to be reprofiled British blades and these open, guardless hilts with an aperture which seems like a birds eye that were apparently machete type weapons. These were seemingly from tropical regions in the 'Spanish Main', which includes Central America and the Gulf littoral of Mexico.

The notable nock in the hilt seems to post date the Arabian sa'if which became known in the Maghreb as the 'nimcha' with that very feature.
This nock for the back of the hand, little finger is found in these 'Berber' sabres, as well as the curious swords from Cuba (termed Guanabacoa) which have these as well as finger stalls in the grip.
The espada ancha forms from South America (Brazil ) and other with the striated shell guards also have these nocks for the hand,
and their diffusion reflects the diffusion of these influences throughout Spanish colonial regions.

The occurrence of the 'Berber' sabres in Morocco was due to volunteers into those Spanish controlled areas in early 20th c. in civil disruptions.
The fact that these are absent from the very thorough works of Charles Buttin, who lived often, as did his family in Morocco, suggests they were not a known indigenous form in these or earlier times. He was an avid researcher and cataloguer of ethnographic weapons, whose works we often rely on.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim,
You have astutely keyed in on a number of elements in these various loosely connected forms. These so called 'Berber' sabres are actually believed to be reprofiled British blades and these open, guardless hilts with an aperture which seems like a birds eye that were apparently machete type weapons. These were seemingly from tropical regions in the 'Spanish Main', which includes Central America and the Gulf littoral of Mexico.

The notable nock in the hilt seems to post date the Arabian sa'if which became known in the Maghreb as the 'nimcha' with that very feature.
This nock for the back of the hand, little finger is found in these 'Berber' sabres, as well as the curious swords from Cuba (termed Guanabacoa) which have these as well as finger stalls in the grip.
The espada ancha forms from South America (Brazil ) and other with the striated shell guards also have these nocks for the hand,
and their diffusion reflects the diffusion of these influences throughout Spanish colonial regions.

The occurrence of the 'Berber' sabres in Morocco was due to volunteers into those Spanish controlled areas in early 20th c. in civil disruptions.
The fact that these are absent from the very thorough works of Charles Buttin, who lived often, as did his family in Morocco, suggests they were not a known indigenous form in these or earlier times. He was an avid researcher and cataloguer of ethnographic weapons, whose works we often rely on.

Thanks Jim.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim,
You have astutely keyed in on a number of elements in these various loosely connected forms. These so called 'Berber' sabres are actually believed to be reprofiled British blades and these open, guardless hilts with an aperture which seems like a birds eye that were apparently machete type weapons. These were seemingly from tropical regions in the 'Spanish Main', which includes Central America and the Gulf littoral of Mexico.

The notable nock in the hilt seems to post date the Arabian sa'if which became known in the Maghreb as the 'nimcha' with that very feature.
This nock for the back of the hand, little finger is found in these 'Berber' sabres, as well as the curious swords from Cuba (termed Guanabacoa) which have these as well as finger stalls in the grip.
The espada ancha forms from South America (Brazil ) and other with the striated shell guards also have these nocks for the hand,
and their diffusion reflects the diffusion of these influences throughout Spanish colonial regions.

The occurrence of the 'Berber' sabres in Morocco was due to volunteers into those Spanish controlled areas in early 20th c. in civil disruptions.
The fact that these are absent from the very thorough works of Charles Buttin, who lived often, as did his family in Morocco, suggests they were not a known indigenous form in these or earlier times. He was an avid researcher and cataloguer of ethnographic weapons, whose works we often rely on.

Salaams Jim, My previous reply above was far too short ...apologies as everything that could fall off my car fell off!! thus I have been away for as few days sticking things back on!!... It is remarkable that Buttin did not record these swords and of course clearly they weren't in Morocco...I wondered about the beak shaped African scabbards at #75 and how they traversed to that form?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It further puzzles me generally with this weapon in its clipped tip form and in viewing the final post at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4679 that this could be inverted?... In fact the first post at the same thread places this form firmly in the Dominican theatre... Below a Guanabacoa on orange backdrop...and an example of the clipped tip apparently inverted...