Afghan Pulowar blade type?

[kronckew]

nope, a man playing a well known kurdish military leader in a recent epic.

a further hint: he had just been asked 'what is jerusalem worth?'.

[Rick]

K.O.H.
Saladin, standing before the walls of Jerusalem.
I loved how he clenched his fist when he said 'everything'.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Rick

K.O.H.
Saladin, standing before the walls of Jerusalem.
I loved how he clenched his fist when he said 'everything'.

give the man a seegar! you are awarded one golden attaboy, which when presented at any pub, bar, or tavern may be exchanged for the right to purchase a pint of your favourite tipple at the establishment's normal price. subject to terms and conditions. acceptability may vary. subject to local, state, and national taxes as governed by the applicable laws. no smoking allowed in public places. you must be over the age of 18.

ghassan massoud in a fine depiction of saladin in KOH as he walks away from belial after the surrender.

a favourite movie with realistic costumes and equipment - for hollywoodland at least. they even used riveted mail in the closeups. (cue arguement as to whether or not it was round or wedge rivets ) shame someone shot him in the head from underneath with a white arrow in his moment of glory. seems to survive tho.

[Jim McDougall]

OK ya lot of suds sodden characters!!!
and right Rick, in Knights of Heaven.....excellent !

So back to the pointed things......

Here is a great tulwar which Gav had,believed of northern regions in India, this determined by a number of paluoar characteristics such as striations in the pommel etc .Note the slotted knuckleguard, not only found on a good number of paluoars but on the Afghan military hilt in discussion.

With that recurved gooseneck, swan neck (often I have seen the term 'water bird') feature at the terminal at pommel, it seems Pant attributed tulwars with this feature to Banswara in Rajasthan. However that may of course be equally diffused to many other instances as specific regional classifications are usually speculative at best without exact provenance.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

OK ya lot of suds sodden characters!!!
and right Rick, in Knights of Heaven.....excellent !

So back to the pointed things......

Here is a great tulwar which Gav had,believed of northern regions in India, this determined by a number of paluoar characteristics such as striations in the pommel etc .Note the slotted knuckleguard, not only found on a good number of paluoars but on the Afghan military hilt in discussion.

With that recurved gooseneck, swan neck (often I have seen the term 'water bird') feature at the terminal at pommel, it seems Pant attributed tulwars with this feature to Banswara in Rajasthan. However that may of course be equally diffused to many other instances as specific regional classifications are usually speculative at best without exact provenance.

Salaams Jim, This is a great subject and in viewing the various swan neck types I noted a great variety on both dagger and sword hilts in both Indian and Afghan weapons not surprising from the geographical viewpoint and their close history. Some weapons have elaborate finials but some also seen below have none. Naturally a great number enter the realms of high class bling because of the Jehangir and his association with his own personal designs and those of his many Royal Mughul workshops...in what is almost a fashion statement in Jade and Neophrite etc. Note also the variation where the swan neck can evolve from teardrop or bud through swan neck to serpent like finial. Well noted is the swan neck as seen at #64. above.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

More astounding photos Ibrahiim !! Thank you.

It truly is fascinating looking more at the recurved guard 'necks' and their variation in style especially as occurring on tulwars in India as opposed to the paluoar (while of Afghanistan but in actuality N. India).

In most cases it seems the decorative treatment on tulwars is more inclined to floral theme, and these recurved features resemble a bud (probably lotus). There are of course exceptions, but it seems worth noting.

The Afghan paluoar seems to nearly invariably use a dragon or 'monster' in stylized degree on both the downturned quillon terminals and the recurved neck of the guard.

The use of the dragon symbolically is of course not confined to the Ottoman sphere, however it does seem to be significantly important.
This is well described in "The Silver Dragon and the Golden Fish: An Imperial Ottoman Symbol", David Alexander , Gladius XXIII, 2003, pp.211-268.

This suggests the preponderance of the 'dragon' used by Ottomans, and seemingly favored by Afghans in the decoration of these swords accordingly as a symbol of power. In many, if not most cases, these are of course dramatically stylized.

With the military 'Machin Khana' style hilts, it is intriguing to see the general form of these hilts with recurved neck on guard fashioned into simple machine type guards, slotted as in some more decorative tulwar and paluouar hilts. Along with this we see the extremely austere bayonet style hilt, following the 'strictly business' character of western military arms.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

More astounding photos Ibrahiim !! Thank you.

It truly is fascinating looking more at the recurved guard 'necks' and their variation in style especially as occurring on tulwars in India as opposed to the paluoar (while of Afghanistan but in actuality N. India).

In most cases it seems the decorative treatment on tulwars is more inclined to floral theme, and these recurved features resemble a bud (probably lotus). There are of course exceptions, but it seems worth noting.

The Afghan paluoar seems to nearly invariably use a dragon or 'monster' in stylized degree on both the downturned quillon terminals and the recurved neck of the guard.

The use of the dragon symbolically is of course not confined to the Ottoman sphere, however it does seem to be significantly important.
This is well described in "The Silver Dragon and the Golden Fish: An Imperial Ottoman Symbol", David Alexander , Gladius XXIII, 2003, pp.211-268.

This suggests the preponderance of the 'dragon' used by Ottomans, and seemingly favored by Afghans in the decoration of these swords accordingly as a symbol of power. In many, if not most cases, these are of course dramatically stylized.

With the military 'Machin Khana' style hilts, it is intriguing to see the general form of these hilts with recurved neck on guard fashioned into simple machine type guards, slotted as in some more decorative tulwar and paluouar hilts. Along with this we see the extremely austere bayonet style hilt, following the 'strictly business' character of western military arms.

Thank you for the post Jim; The industrial make of the Afghan weapon certainly ruled out any traditional fashion statement although it can be seen as a reflection in the goosehead style of finial as a tiny vestige of what went before..I completely support the bud...probably as you say a lotus bud ~ and it may be related to the name Tulvar or Pulvar as Pul and Tul mean flower... though it is an outside shot. I actually considered the dish pommel as a floral form and had considered that as indicative of the name...

One system I have held back in joining the flux is the Sri Lankan form where dragons abound but they are probably related...and seen below as examples.