A little help is welcome.

Battara · 12th January 2005, 08:29 PM

Although I am not well versed in African arms (or legs for that matter

) it does look kinda Kuba to my eye, reminding me of a Kuba knife. There are others who can tell you more accurately than I here. Fella's?

Freddy · 12th January 2005, 08:38 PM

I don't think it's Kuba. They don't use leather handles on their swords and knives. The shape of the blade is also different. The blades are often decorated with engravings, but these are more geometrical.

Here's a (copper) Kuba knife of typical design :

Flavio · 12th January 2005, 11:23 PM

Hi Freddy, this knife/short sword it's particular but very beautiful.
I don't know with precision the provenience, but seems to me that remember some Tikar sword (Cameroon) in the "decoration" of the blade as you can see in some examples on Fischer/Zirngibl's Afrikanische Waffen.
To the contrary the general shape it's similar to the Baule sword (a part the tip of the blade).

Andrew · 13th January 2005, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Although I am not well versed in African arms (or legs for that matter

)

*Groan*

Freddy · 13th January 2005, 08:53 PM

Just to show all 'African weapons lovers' this nice Belgian website.µ

http://www.mambele.be/

tom hyle · 14th January 2005, 03:15 PM

Wow. Thanks.

Tim Simmons · 15th January 2005, 02:25 PM

Preparing my pictures.Tim

tom hyle · 15th January 2005, 05:48 PM

I'm nagged by the feeling that the hide covering on the handle is not original, but perhaps a repair (?) The carving on the pommel seems finer than would show well through it, and that doesn't seem "right". There's more, but start with that, if you will. You can look at the actual object, eh?....see what you think. The blade is really nice, and the pommel carving looks nice, but the hide work looks fairly crude; field-repair to tighten a hilt? to weatherize it? to bind splits? I recently saw an old Mexican army sabre whose entire hilt, handle, pommel, and brass barred basket, had been (seemingly and allegedly originally) covered in leather. I know that leather covered hilts are common in much of Africa, but this work looks to me atypical, mainly in its crudity, and crudity as compared to both other pieces as well as to other elements of this piece? Hard for me to tell from the pics though, whether it's crudity or just drying/damage???????

Freddy · 15th January 2005, 06:15 PM

I don't think the leather covering is a repair. A lot of knives and swords from Cameroon have these. Look at the close-ups I made.

First view is the front of the handle. Notice the iron banding on the handle.

Second pic shows the back. The seam of the leather appears to be open. I think at one time the leather shrunk.

The pommel of the handle was once also totally covered with leather, but this has worn off, showing the metal 'skeleton' under the leather. In between, the space is filled with some 'soft stuff'. Can't make out what it is.

To complete the picture, a side view :

12th January 2005, 11:23 PM	#3
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Freddy, this knife/short sword it's particular but very beautiful. I don't know with precision the provenience, but seems to me that remember some Tikar sword (Cameroon) in the "decoration" of the blade as you can see in some examples on Fischer/Zirngibl's Afrikanische Waffen. To the contrary the general shape it's similar to the Baule sword (a part the tip of the blade). Attached Images

13th January 2005, 08:53 PM	#5
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Nice link Just to show all 'African weapons lovers' this nice Belgian website.µ http://www.mambele.be/

12th January 2005, 08:29 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Although I am not well versed in African arms (or legs for that matter ) it does look kinda Kuba to my eye, reminding me of a Kuba knife. There are others who can tell you more accurately than I here. Fella's?

12th January 2005, 08:38 PM	#2
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't think it's Kuba. They don't use leather handles on their swords and knives. The shape of the blade is also different. The blades are often decorated with engravings, but these are more geometrical. Here's a (copper) Kuba knife of typical design :

14th January 2005, 03:15 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Wow. Thanks.

15th January 2005, 02:25 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Preparing my pictures.Tim

15th January 2005, 05:48 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I'm nagged by the feeling that the hide covering on the handle is not original, but perhaps a repair (?) The carving on the pommel seems finer than would show well through it, and that doesn't seem "right". There's more, but start with that, if you will. You can look at the actual object, eh?....see what you think. The blade is really nice, and the pommel carving looks nice, but the hide work looks fairly crude; field-repair to tighten a hilt? to weatherize it? to bind splits? I recently saw an old Mexican army sabre whose entire hilt, handle, pommel, and brass barred basket, had been (seemingly and allegedly originally) covered in leather. I know that leather covered hilts are common in much of Africa, but this work looks to me atypical, mainly in its crudity, and crudity as compared to both other pieces as well as to other elements of this piece? Hard for me to tell from the pics though, whether it's crudity or just drying/damage???????

15th January 2005, 06:15 PM	#9
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't think the leather covering is a repair. A lot of knives and swords from Cameroon have these. Look at the close-ups I made. First view is the front of the handle. Notice the iron banding on the handle. Second pic shows the back. The seam of the leather appears to be open. I think at one time the leather shrunk. The pommel of the handle was once also totally covered with leather, but this has worn off, showing the metal 'skeleton' under the leather. In between, the space is filled with some 'soft stuff'. Can't make out what it is. To complete the picture, a side view :