Indo-Persian sword with Wootz blade and parrot hilt

kai · 16th July 2016, 05:06 PM

Hello Ibrahiim,

When 2 threads are joined, the old responses get mingled in chronological order - this doesn't help with following the extensive discussion already present. I'm not convinced that this really helps.

Both threads are cross-referenced, so anyone stumbling on one of these threads will also see the other one. IMHO that should do - YMMV. I rest my case and leave it for the mods to decide.

Regards,
Kai

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 17th July 2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Ibrahiim,

When 2 threads are joined, the old responses get mingled in chronological order - this doesn't help with following the extensive discussion already present. I'm not convinced that this really helps.

Both threads are cross-referenced, so anyone stumbling on one of these threads will also see the other one. IMHO that should do - YMMV. I rest my case and leave it for the mods to decide.

Regards,
Kai

Show me evidence of this...where confusion results from joining two threads dealing with the same basic subject? The two threads focus upon the same sword family/style... It is blindingly obvious that the two should be put together.

kai · 18th October 2016, 01:50 PM

A bronze hilt of similar construction with a sinha (or yali?) pommel. This seems to corroborate a connection with Hindu regions of southern India.

(Thanks to Ibrahiim for originally pulling this off the Ali Antiques website; all pics shown here for comparision modified to show the same orientation.)

kai · 18th October 2016, 01:53 PM

This sword with a horse head pommel has a different kind of blade.

kai · 18th October 2016, 01:58 PM

Another zoomorphic pommel. However, the hilt exhibiting some differences from the standard configuration discussed here: a vestigial crossbar at the back of the blade and more floral decorations, especially at the base of the blade. Arguably, it may be questionable whether this is really of the same pattern and origin as the other examples discussed here.

kai · 18th October 2016, 02:23 PM

And last not least another variant with a more stylized pommel (still close enough to the bird examples shown above).

With the grip and pommel scales made from ivory, this one was also a status piece. Thus, one might argue that all these examples were mid (to high in post #58) status swords from somewhere in southern India; all seem to be well earlier than late 19th century.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 6th April 2021, 01:13 AM

I haven't updated this thread for quite a while.

As possible origins within southern India, there have been suggestions to a link to the late Vijayanagar empire and/or possibly local kingdoms developing from it (including more specifically Madurai in today's Tamil Nadu).

There also have been thoughts towards the NW frontier area of a greater "Indian" sphere of influence as well as central Asia (cp. this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21429).

More insights and examples more than welcome - this enigma certainly hasn't been fully solved yet!

Regards,
Kai

18th October 2016, 01:50 PM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	A bronze hilt of similar construction with a sinha (or yali?) pommel. This seems to corroborate a connection with Hindu regions of southern India. (Thanks to Ibrahiim for originally pulling this off the Ali Antiques website; all pics shown here for comparision modified to show the same orientation.) Attached Images

18th October 2016, 01:53 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	This sword with a horse head pommel has a different kind of blade. Attached Images

18th October 2016, 02:23 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	And last not least another variant with a more stylized pommel (still close enough to the bird examples shown above). With the grip and pommel scales made from ivory, this one was also a status piece. Thus, one might argue that all these examples were mid (to high in post #58) status swords from somewhere in southern India; all seem to be well earlier than late 19th century. Regards, Kai Attached Images Last edited by kai; 18th October 2016 at 02:52 PM. Reason: adding full-size pic

16th July 2016, 05:06 PM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Ibrahiim, When 2 threads are joined, the old responses get mingled in chronological order - this doesn't help with following the extensive discussion already present. I'm not convinced that this really helps. Both threads are cross-referenced, so anyone stumbling on one of these threads will also see the other one. IMHO that should do - YMMV. I rest my case and leave it for the mods to decide. Regards, Kai

18th October 2016, 01:58 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Another zoomorphic pommel. However, the hilt exhibiting some differences from the standard configuration discussed here: a vestigial crossbar at the back of the blade and more floral decorations, especially at the base of the blade. Arguably, it may be questionable whether this is really of the same pattern and origin as the other examples discussed here. Attached Images

6th April 2021, 01:13 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	I haven't updated this thread for quite a while. As possible origins within southern India, there have been suggestions to a link to the late Vijayanagar empire and/or possibly local kingdoms developing from it (including more specifically Madurai in today's Tamil Nadu). There also have been thoughts towards the NW frontier area of a greater "Indian" sphere of influence as well as central Asia (cp. this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=21429). More insights and examples more than welcome - this enigma certainly hasn't been fully solved yet! Regards, Kai