HOW TO SPOT A TRUE SHAMSHIR MAKER STAMP???

Jens Nordlunde · 6th February 2006, 03:06 PM

Hi Alex,

Look at it this way, ‘who is the most important man, the one who just ordered a sword, or the sword maker?’ As the man who is going to pay for the sword thinks he is, it will most likely be his name on the blade – unless the sword maker is very famous, as it will then give prestige, to have his name on the blade as well. It did however sometimes so happen, that the sword maker forgot his own name when the decoration was to be made, and only remembered a name of a sword maker more famous than himself. Sheer forgetfulness, but a problem for the collector, one or two hundred years later.

Some, if not most, of the inscriptions are religious verses, and last but not least, a lot of the inscriptions were made later than the blade – some of them much later.

To be able to look through this smoke screen, you need knowledge enough to tell how old the blade is, and to know how the decorations changed through times, when you know this, you can tell if the decoration was made at the same time as the blade – maybe. Sometimes the decorations were made in a style older than the one used at the time of making. Good luck.
Quite a few of the stamps you see on blades are also religious verses, and not necessarily owners or makers mark.

Nice pictures you show, thank you.

Jim McDougall · 6th February 2006, 05:08 PM

Beautifully said Jens!!!

I agree completely with what you and Radu have well explained here. The cartouches were often added at a later time, and typically were prayer invocations. In later times as commercialism increased and the use of trade blades intensified it was indeed very common for makers to add the names of earlier and more renowned makers to enhance the value of the blades.
For probably one of the best resources that addresses cartouches and markings found on many shamshir blades, I would very highly recommend
"The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah" by Oliver Pinchot ("Arms Collecting" , Vol.40, #1, Feb.2002). The author is well known among serious collectors and students of Islamic arms and armour, and goes into considerable well explained detail describing the development the shamshir's favor and the later advent of production blades that occur frequently on many examples. His attention to the cartouches, as discussed here ,is of course key to his article.

The beauty of the Persian shamshir is always astounding, regardless of the age of the blade, and those who own true examples are very fortunate indeed!

Best regards,
Jim

6th February 2006, 03:06 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Alex, Look at it this way, ‘who is the most important man, the one who just ordered a sword, or the sword maker?’ As the man who is going to pay for the sword thinks he is, it will most likely be his name on the blade – unless the sword maker is very famous, as it will then give prestige, to have his name on the blade as well. It did however sometimes so happen, that the sword maker forgot his own name when the decoration was to be made, and only remembered a name of a sword maker more famous than himself. Sheer forgetfulness, but a problem for the collector, one or two hundred years later. Some, if not most, of the inscriptions are religious verses, and last but not least, a lot of the inscriptions were made later than the blade – some of them much later. To be able to look through this smoke screen, you need knowledge enough to tell how old the blade is, and to know how the decorations changed through times, when you know this, you can tell if the decoration was made at the same time as the blade – maybe. Sometimes the decorations were made in a style older than the one used at the time of making. Good luck. Quite a few of the stamps you see on blades are also religious verses, and not necessarily owners or makers mark. Nice pictures you show, thank you. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 6th February 2006 at 03:34 PM.

6th February 2006, 05:08 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Beautifully said Jens!!! I agree completely with what you and Radu have well explained here. The cartouches were often added at a later time, and typically were prayer invocations. In later times as commercialism increased and the use of trade blades intensified it was indeed very common for makers to add the names of earlier and more renowned makers to enhance the value of the blades. For probably one of the best resources that addresses cartouches and markings found on many shamshir blades, I would very highly recommend "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah" by Oliver Pinchot ("Arms Collecting" , Vol.40, #1, Feb.2002). The author is well known among serious collectors and students of Islamic arms and armour, and goes into considerable well explained detail describing the development the shamshir's favor and the later advent of production blades that occur frequently on many examples. His attention to the cartouches, as discussed here ,is of course key to his article. The beauty of the Persian shamshir is always astounding, regardless of the age of the blade, and those who own true examples are very fortunate indeed! Best regards, Jim