Attribution of Indian (?) handle: Hyderabad?

[ariel]

So, how should we call these swords?
They are a bewildering hodge-podge of parts and styles: Persian blades, Indian handles, Arabian decor...

Indo-Arabian? Arab -Mughal?

For myself, I choose the construction of the handle as the defining point. Blades were imported, decorations borrowed or just made by itinerant artisans, but the national character of the sword was embedded in its handle. It was a hallmark of tribal beliefs and tastes, it reflected the traditional way of wielding it, it largely defined its techniques.
That is why shashka is Caucasian, Kastane is Sri Lankan, Pulwar is Afghani, Yataghan is Ottoman ( with even more ethnic variations), Choora is from the Khyber Pass and Kattara is Omani.


I would easily call it Baloch or Sindhian, or Hyderabadi.

Others can choose their favorite definitions, but calling it just "Arabian" would be a big mistake IMHO.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by ariel

For myself, I choose the construction of the handle as the defining point. Blades were imported, decorations borrowed or just made by itinerant artisans, but the national character of the sword was embedded in its handle.
It was a hallmark of tribal beliefs and tastes, it reflected the traditional way of wielding it, it largely defined its techniques.

IMHO.

Yes i totally agree for the handle and also the scabbard, but i think decorations are essential... Blades are traded or reused... I agree forget about them.

Originally Posted by ariel

That is why shashka is Caucasian, Kastane is Sri Lankan, Pulwar is Afghani, Lankan, Pulwar is Afghani, Yataghan is Ottoman ( with even more ethnic variations), Choora is from the Khyber Pass and Kattara is Omani.
IMHO.

So true

[roshan]

Hi guys! A couple of notes on people of ethnic Sindhi origin in Las Bela and also in Oman!!!

Many of the business community in Oman are of Sindhi origin. There is a language spoken in Oman called Luwati which is an offshoot of the Sindhi language. Today though many of the Luwatis have assimilated amongst the Arabs.

https://www.ethnologue.com/language/luv

Many Arab business people from Oman and surrounding areas funnily enough have surnames typical of Sindhi Hindu business communities: Mohammed Al Barwani, Hussain Sajwani, Al Vaswani and so on.

More information of Luwatis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Lawatia

Wikipedia also notes that many descendants of Sindhi sailors in Oman speak Baluchi as a language.

Regarding Las Bela - not only is Baluchi spoken in the region, but also the Lasi dialect of Sindhi, most likely spoken by the Jams, who descended from earlier Sindhi speaking Rajput or Jat tribes in the region:

https://www.ethnologue.com/language/lss

Furthermore, all the surnames used by the Baluchi Jamot are also subclans of the Soomra and Samma Rajputs of Sindh, who were the historical rulers of Sindh during the period after the Arab conquests. Jamot itself is listed as one of the Samma clans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samma_(tribe)

Note that "Jam" itself is a Sindhi word for local chieftains, many folk figures of Sindh have this title such as "Jam Tamachi" and so on, and you find places named after Jam all throughout the Sindhi realm - Even in Gujarat proper, you have places named such as Jamnagar due to the historical settlement of Sindhi speaking tribes.

Furthermore, the Jadgali language spoken in Makran coast as far as Iran is also an offshoot of Sindhi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadgali_language
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/jdg

In short - Lots of migrations, assimilations and very complex intertwined ethnic backgrounds in the Baluchistan-Sindh-Kutch-Gujarat-Oman area.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by roshan

Hi guys! A couple of notes on people of ethnic Sindhi origin in Las Bela and also in Oman!!!

Many of the business community in Oman are of Sindhi origin. There is a language spoken in Oman called Luwati which is an offshoot of the Sindhi language. Today though many of the Luwatis have assimilated amongst the Arabs.

https://www.ethnologue.com/language/luv

Many Arab business people from Oman and surrounding areas funnily enough have surnames typical of Sindhi Hindu business communities: Mohammed Al Barwani, Hussain Sajwani, Al Vaswani and so on.

More information of Luwatis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Lawatia

Wikipedia also notes that many descendants of Sindhi sailors in Oman speak Baluchi as a language.

Regarding Las Bela - not only is Baluchi spoken in the region, but also the Lasi dialect of Sindhi, most likely spoken by the Jams, who descended from earlier Sindhi speaking Rajput or Jat tribes in the region:

https://www.ethnologue.com/language/lss

Furthermore, all the surnames used by the Baluchi Jamot are also subclans of the Soomra and Samma Rajputs of Sindh, who were the historical rulers of Sindh during the period after the Arab conquests. Jamot itself is listed as one of the Samma clans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samma_(tribe)

Note that "Jam" itself is a Sindhi word for local chieftains, many folk figures of Sindh have this title such as "Jam Tamachi" and so on, and you find places named after Jam all throughout the Sindhi realm - Even in Gujarat proper, you have places named such as Jamnagar due to the historical settlement of Sindhi speaking tribes.

Furthermore, the Jadgali language spoken in Makran coast as far as Iran is also an offshoot of Sindhi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadgali_language
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/jdg

In short - Lots of migrations, assimilations and very complex intertwined ethnic backgrounds in the Baluchistan-Sindh-Kutch-Gujarat-Oman area.

Your reply is interesting and I appreciate your final point about the assimilation in The Indian Ocean. My view in trying to link who did what focuses upon the main sea traders at the time..which were Khojas and with Zanzibar and Muscat (and Sur) a main trade group of hubs or trade centres...it is likely that the Khojas were the main traders dealing with such items. I appreciate, however, that it could have been others..I have not yet been able to pinpoint a Royal Workshop in Oman making swords for the Ruler or VIPs as it would probably be through such a conduit that high class weapons like these would move.
Please see http://www.everyculture.com/South-Asia/Khoja.html

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

It may be noticed at post #18 of this thread that all the swords have wrist straps attached to the rings in the pommels of the hilts. This is clearly the reason for these rings which are relatively small; more akin in size to nose rings or ear rings. However, it is their purpose which prompts me to pen this post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by ariel

So, how should we call these swords?
They are a bewildering hodge-podge of parts and styles: Persian blades, Indian handles, Arabian decor...

Indo-Arabian? Arab -Mughal?

For myself, I choose the construction of the handle as the defining point. Blades were imported, decorations borrowed or just made by itinerant artisans, but the national character of the sword was embedded in its handle. It was a hallmark of tribal beliefs and tastes, it reflected the traditional way of wielding it, it largely defined its techniques.
That is why shashka is Caucasian, Kastane is Sri Lankan, Pulwar is Afghani, Yataghan is Ottoman ( with even more ethnic variations), Choora is from the Khyber Pass and Kattara is Omani.


I would easily call it Baloch or Sindhian, or Hyderabadi.

Others can choose their favorite definitions, but calling it just "Arabian" would be a big mistake IMHO.

Well put, the hilts are profoundly reflections of the cultures and regional affectations where the spectrum and varieties of blades are mounted.
The term 'Arabic' is far too collectively used to be effective in trying to properly classify a sword in response to its overall features. Even swords that are known to be from Arabia itself were carried far and wide in the vast geography included in their trade.

It is localized nuances that typically give us the denominators necessary in more precisely classifying a weapon, and these of course are most often in the hilt.

I would say Baloch, Sind or Hyderabadi would be quite logically placed here.

I had overlooked that ring emplaced in the pommel on the hilt of this sword, and do agree this seems to be an affectation from India's northern regions. If I recall correctly many, if not most, Afghan oriented edged weapons typically have a ring attached to the pommels.
I have always thought of these as a lanyard attachment but may be used as a festoon link likely as well.
The rings on the Omani khanjhar scabbards are purely decorative links in the belting configuration on the scabbards, in which the number of these rings seems to be significant either regionally or otherwise.

Eric, thank you for the kind return note, and as for learning here....emphatically I say.......me too!!!!

As Ariel has said, that's what this forum is all about

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well put, the hilts are profoundly reflections of the cultures and regional affectations where the spectrum and varieties of blades are mounted.
The term 'Arabic' is far too collectively used to be effective in trying to properly classify a sword in response to its overall features. Even swords that are known to be from Arabia itself were carried far and wide in the vast geography included in their trade.

It is localized nuances that typically give us the denominators necessary in more precisely classifying a weapon, and these of course are most often in the hilt.

I would say Baloch, Sind or Hyderabadi would be quite logically placed here.

I had overlooked that ring emplaced in the pommel on the hilt of this sword, and do agree this seems to be an affectation from India's northern regions. If I recall correctly many, if not most, Afghan oriented edged weapons typically have a ring attached to the pommels.
I have always thought of these as a lanyard attachment but may be used as a festoon link likely as well.
The rings on the Omani khanjhar scabbards are purely decorative links in the belting configuration on the scabbards, in which the number of these rings seems to be significant either regionally or otherwise.

Eric, thank you for the kind return note, and as for learning here....emphatically I say.......me too!!!!

As Ariel has said, that's what this forum is all about

Dear Jim, As usual excellent support, and a great subject. Actually none of the Omani Shamshir swords in the Omani Museums have this odd ring in the Pommel. Nor do they appear in the Richardson and Dorr. I conclude that Omani Shamshir don't have them They look like they would snag the long outfit worn by dignitaries...and whereas in the Sindh they look like fighting weapons ...worn by a VIP here they function as a badge of office.

I am not entirely convinced that these weapons were brought or offered to Omani dignitaries since so far as I can see the bulk of Mercenaries came from the Western part of Baluchistan...however, I think the great sea traders largely emanating from Hyderabad(Sindh) may be the people responsible ... The Khojas. I am however trying to find out... It is certainly plausible that it could have been transmitted by both ... and hats off to Ariel and everyone here...that this is the weapon which people often term Arabian Shamshir... or in the case of Oman ... The Omani Shamshir. (also identical is the VIP sword in the Comoros)

For any newcomers interested in Hyderabad please note that there are two. One in India in the South and another in Pakistan on the eastern edge of what we call Baluchistan in the area known as Sindh and the latter being the one we are currently interested in.