Electro rust removal on mail armor.

Helleri · 18th June 2016, 02:30 AM

Isn't Indo-Persain maille usually bar-link?

estcrh · 18th June 2016, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helleri

Isn't Indo-Persain maille usually bar-link?

Bar link or theta link mail is a rather rare varient. It is composed of alternating rows of round riveted links and theta links, which are basically a solid link with a small bar of metal welded across the link. The most common type of mail used in Indo-Persian mail is alternating rows of solid links and round riveted links, although there are a few examples of all round riveted mail and even some examples of wedge riveted mail. Theta link mail would have been very time consuming to make and expensive making it suitable for wealty individuals only.

Below are some images of theta links from an Indian example and a report from the Royal Armouries. Notice the extreme small size of the individual links, making it next to impossible for even an arrow head to pass through.

Quote:

Indian mail coif / ‘khula zirah’ from the 18th century, purportedly from the Bikaneer Armoury, made from rows of theta (Θ) links and alternated with rows of fine round riveted links. Very long in comparison to any other coifs from India, with a large opening for the face (which would originally had a long chain mail flap for full protection).

Battara · 18th June 2016, 03:34 PM

W

W!

That's crazy!

Shakethetrees · 18th June 2016, 05:43 PM

There almost certainly had to be some type of die involved. The links are too perfectly round when compared to the riveted links. The edges appear to be perfectly square with the surface.

The consistent heat control and applied pressure during the welding process imply there could be a "trick" that we're overlooking.

estcrh · 19th June 2016, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

There almost certainly had to be some type of die involved. The links are too perfectly round when compared to the riveted links. The edges appear to be perfectly square with the surface.

The consistent heat control and applied pressure during the welding process imply there could be a "trick" that we're overlooking.

No doubt we are missing something in the production of this type of mail. To make thousands of uniform links I would imagine that some sort of form was used to hold the wire in place after it was heated enough to bend into shape, then it had to be welded in to one piece, amazing workmanship.

Here is a 17th century theta link mail and plate shirt, you can imaging how long it took to construct something like this from start to finish.

estcrh · 19th June 2016, 04:31 PM

I may as well include some images of standard Indo-Persian mail, which as I said before is usually constructed with alternating rows of solid links and round riveted links. Several types are easily recognized such as Indian mail and Ottoman mail. Below are some examples, the first is a 17th centur,y mail shirt detail, you can see the round riveted links and the very distinctive solid links which appear to be made from strips of welded metal and not wire, the red arrow shows delamination of the weld on a solid link.

Next is 16th century Ottoman cuirass, metal plates connected with a very distinctive mail, you can see the round riveted links and the solid links which instead of being round have the appearance of being faceted due to having flat areas on the outside of the links, I am not sure exactly how these Ottoman solid links were made but it is very recognizable.

The third example is Indian mail but if you look at the links they appear to have been swaged / shaped in some way and are beautifully formed, they were not made from round wire as with most Indian riveted links. This is another example of a very time consumming process. I would have to assume that this type of mail was thought to be stronger then round wire links, I would also guess that this would have been much more expensive than the standard mail.

Helleri · 20th June 2016, 01:28 AM

Ah okay thanks for that. Also...One thing I have notice in images is that most wedge riveted I see is used on flattened rings. Whereas most round riveted is used on substantially thicker and usually round rings. Is this just confirmation bias or is this normal? and if normal is there a reasoning we know of behind it?

19th June 2016, 04:31 PM	#6
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	I may as well include some images of standard Indo-Persian mail, which as I said before is usually constructed with alternating rows of solid links and round riveted links. Several types are easily recognized such as Indian mail and Ottoman mail. Below are some examples, the first is a 17th centur,y mail shirt detail, you can see the round riveted links and the very distinctive solid links which appear to be made from strips of welded metal and not wire, the red arrow shows delamination of the weld on a solid link. Next is 16th century Ottoman cuirass, metal plates connected with a very distinctive mail, you can see the round riveted links and the solid links which instead of being round have the appearance of being faceted due to having flat areas on the outside of the links, I am not sure exactly how these Ottoman solid links were made but it is very recognizable. The third example is Indian mail but if you look at the links they appear to have been swaged / shaped in some way and are beautifully formed, they were not made from round wire as with most Indian riveted links. This is another example of a very time consumming process. I would have to assume that this type of mail was thought to be stronger then round wire links, I would also guess that this would have been much more expensive than the standard mail. Attached Images

18th June 2016, 02:30 AM	#1
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Isn't Indo-Persain maille usually bar-link?

18th June 2016, 03:34 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	W W! That's crazy!

18th June 2016, 05:43 PM	#4
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	There almost certainly had to be some type of die involved. The links are too perfectly round when compared to the riveted links. The edges appear to be perfectly square with the surface. The consistent heat control and applied pressure during the welding process imply there could be a "trick" that we're overlooking.

20th June 2016, 01:28 AM	#7
Helleri Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Chino, CA. Posts: 219	Ah okay thanks for that. Also...One thing I have notice in images is that most wedge riveted I see is used on flattened rings. Whereas most round riveted is used on substantially thicker and usually round rings. Is this just confirmation bias or is this normal? and if normal is there a reasoning we know of behind it?