Markings on a Takouba-mounted European Backsword

blue lander · 19th May 2016, 09:53 PM

between the regular ricasso and the sandwiched bit, the original ricasso on this blade would have been about 5 inches long!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st May 2016, 02:28 PM

Lopoking across the broad variety of alphabets I see that the Majescule A occurs in Coptic. The reverse N in Tuareg and the 3 dots in ...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 21st May 2016, 02:42 PM

Lopoking across the broad variety of alphabets I see that the Majescule A occurs in Coptic. The reverse N in Tuareg \tifinaghe and the 3 dots. I seem to get the impression that any sequence of capitals will suffice and letters and numerals from a mixture of countries across the broad sweep of Tuareg domains was possible...

Jim McDougall · 21st May 2016, 09:01 PM

WOW!
Good catch Ibrahiim!!
There is that curious N in Tifinagh, and the others. That would explain these lettering anomalies which are found on numerous 'nimcha' blades as well as others in Saharan context.
The squiggled lines and dots are found on Sudanese blades in various cases as the snake (python) is key in certain symbolisms.

Well done......excellent research, thank you

blue lander · 22nd May 2016, 12:27 AM

Very interesting angle on the alphabet it might be in.

I cleaned the blade up a bit - it's starting to look like that second character is just an M with a bit of corrosion.

Also, I've uncovered two half circles between the clusters of dots. I think they're eyelashes but I suppose the could be half moons. There isn't much left of them.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd May 2016, 10:46 PM

This is excellent news showing Latten style inlaid hogsbacks which would usually be European crafted ? .... I'm not sure about the M as it appears to be the Majescule A. Naturally a sword could arrive with marks already completed and then added to by African smiths...

For sure the ADABAL is decorated in snake forms ...commonly seen in these West African decorations...i think in Ashanti design...although it can be imagines that a line up of snakes in front of the crossguard would afford some mystical Talismanic protection to the sword hand...
The three dot accompanied in the eyelash or hogs back also happens to be an Hausa letter k .

In conclusion it appears that some parallel exists between North African design and the influx of European blades and that Tuareg and others seeing the similarity in design have been inspired to copy in their well known counterparts including some of their decorative alphabet capitals... I illustrate the last point with a chart showing a very similar letter to the European Fly mark...Third row second from the end and the cross and orb on line two...

blue lander · 24th May 2016, 06:16 PM

Hmm.. the writing on the blade may be latten inlaid too. From a distance it looks like the letters are just rusty, but under magnification they look more yellow. I'll try to get a non-blurry closeup.

Jim McDougall · 24th May 2016, 07:48 PM

I think these letters may have been latten filled, and it seems a good possibility this is a late 17th century cavalry (probably schiavona) blade .
The fact that the latten filled crescent arcs are there suggests more that this blade was inscribed in Europe.
These letters are too deeply stamped to have been done in the native perameters, and while the apparently poorly struck letters bear some resemblance to native alphabets, I am inclined more to European origin.

Still, this entire assemblage gives us great perspective to the kinds of influences which native armourers experienced, and it is hard sometimes to discern where European style ends and native takes over.
Frankly, this places this blade in 'jackpot' category!!!

It has become ever harder to find early blades in these contexts.

Ibrahiim, your notes and observations continue to perfectly illustrate the close parallels between European influence and these native interpretations. The undulating lines which are known in European context as serpents on blades in Italy and I think Spain in degree surely must have been seen by armourers in the Sahara. In their native folk religion it seems I have seen references suggesting the snake and magic of holy men were synonymous.

Blue Lander, again, thank you for sharing this amazing sword here!

21st May 2016, 02:42 PM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Lopoking across the broad variety of alphabets I see that the Majescule A occurs in Coptic. The reverse N in Tuareg \tifinaghe and the 3 dots. I seem to get the impression that any sequence of capitals will suffice and letters and numerals from a mixture of countries across the broad sweep of Tuareg domains was possible... Attached Images

22nd May 2016, 12:27 AM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Very interesting angle on the alphabet it might be in. I cleaned the blade up a bit - it's starting to look like that second character is just an M with a bit of corrosion. Also, I've uncovered two half circles between the clusters of dots. I think they're eyelashes but I suppose the could be half moons. There isn't much left of them. Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 22nd May 2016 at 01:36 AM.

23rd May 2016, 10:46 PM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	This is excellent news showing Latten style inlaid hogsbacks which would usually be European crafted ? .... I'm not sure about the M as it appears to be the Majescule A. Naturally a sword could arrive with marks already completed and then added to by African smiths... For sure the ADABAL is decorated in snake forms ...commonly seen in these West African decorations...i think in Ashanti design...although it can be imagines that a line up of snakes in front of the crossguard would afford some mystical Talismanic protection to the sword hand... The three dot accompanied in the eyelash or hogs back also happens to be an Hausa letter k . In conclusion it appears that some parallel exists between North African design and the influx of European blades and that Tuareg and others seeing the similarity in design have been inspired to copy in their well known counterparts including some of their decorative alphabet capitals... I illustrate the last point with a chart showing a very similar letter to the European Fly mark...Third row second from the end and the cross and orb on line two... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 23rd May 2016 at 11:35 PM.

24th May 2016, 07:48 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I think these letters may have been latten filled, and it seems a good possibility this is a late 17th century cavalry (probably schiavona) blade . The fact that the latten filled crescent arcs are there suggests more that this blade was inscribed in Europe. These letters are too deeply stamped to have been done in the native perameters, and while the apparently poorly struck letters bear some resemblance to native alphabets, I am inclined more to European origin. Still, this entire assemblage gives us great perspective to the kinds of influences which native armourers experienced, and it is hard sometimes to discern where European style ends and native takes over. Frankly, this places this blade in 'jackpot' category!!! It has become ever harder to find early blades in these contexts. Ibrahiim, your notes and observations continue to perfectly illustrate the close parallels between European influence and these native interpretations. The undulating lines which are known in European context as serpents on blades in Italy and I think Spain in degree surely must have been seen by armourers in the Sahara. In their native folk religion it seems I have seen references suggesting the snake and magic of holy men were synonymous. Blue Lander, again, thank you for sharing this amazing sword here! Last edited by Jim McDougall; 24th May 2016 at 10:43 PM.

19th May 2016, 09:53 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	between the regular ricasso and the sandwiched bit, the original ricasso on this blade would have been about 5 inches long!

21st May 2016, 02:28 PM	#2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Lopoking across the broad variety of alphabets I see that the Majescule A occurs in Coptic. The reverse N in Tuareg and the 3 dots in ...

21st May 2016, 09:01 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	WOW! Good catch Ibrahiim!! There is that curious N in Tifinagh, and the others. That would explain these lettering anomalies which are found on numerous 'nimcha' blades as well as others in Saharan context. The squiggled lines and dots are found on Sudanese blades in various cases as the snake (python) is key in certain symbolisms. Well done......excellent research, thank you

24th May 2016, 06:16 PM	#7
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Hmm.. the writing on the blade may be latten inlaid too. From a distance it looks like the letters are just rusty, but under magnification they look more yellow. I'll try to get a non-blurry closeup.