Afghan Jazail

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 01:58 PM

Hello All.
Well, I should have said I wasn't interested. The seller of the recently posted Ottoman Tufuk said he had a couple more Ethno guns he would offer me before putting them up for auction and asked if I would be interested. And his asking price for BOTH was to good to even negotiate. So.....
This is a typical Afghan Jazail Long Gun. The barrel is 37" long smoothbore of about .67 caliber. Looks like someone cleaned the outside of the barrel sometime in the past using a chemical. The OAL is 50". The LOP is only about 10.5". So I believe this gun was possibly made for a younger man, maybe 12-14 years old. Most of these guns have a LOP of 11-12" for the male stature of the period and location. Simple brass barrel bands with probably 2-3 missing.
There is only one hairline crack in the stock in front of the lock. Otherwise, the entire gun is very solid. And, what's amazing, is all of the inlays are still present!! I can't believe it. The authentic Trade lock is in working order. Just needs a little TLC on it's internals. I have not taken the lock off yet but will do so and report back.
There are 3 items missing from the gun: 1. The ramrod is a wood replacement made by the seller. Looks OK for now, but the originals were iron. Will have to have one made. 2. The front sling attachement held by two missing barrel bands is missing. You can see the stock cut out where it use to reside. Looks lie it was missing from a long time ago. Not really anything to do about that. 3. The trigger guard is missing. There is a tiny piece of brass left where the guard was. I've located two, old original 19th Century non-military brass trigger guards that I think of of the two can be modified to fit. If not, I can have one made and aged to match. They were usually made of simple sheet brass.
Anyway, as usual, picture heavy. Comments welcome, and thanks for looking.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 02:07 PM

FORGOT TO RE-SIZE THE PHOTOS...........

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 02:08 PM

MORE PICS.......

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 02:10 PM

STILL MORE........

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 02:11 PM

LAST ONES.............

Kubur · 14th May 2016, 04:41 PM

Hi Rick,
Nice good Jazail, no inlays missing and the lock is really cool.
I have to say that these guns are so common in the UK that sellers don't give you the change instead they give you a Jazail...not like you...again very good lock...

Jim McDougall · 14th May 2016, 05:21 PM

great pics of the mkgs

thanx

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Rick,
Nice good Jazail, no inlays missing and the lock is really cool.
I have to say that these guns are so common in the UK that sellers don't give you the change instead they give you a Jazail...not like you...again very good lock...

Hi Kubur.
LOL!!

Actually, from an historical standpoint, I'm not surprised that a lot of these ended up in the UK. There are quite a few in the States. But it's often difficult to locate one in better condition. And yes, a nice authentic Trade lock versus a locally made copy. That's one of the reasons I bought this one.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

great pics of the mkgs

thanx

Hi Jim.
Yes, the markings on this one are real clear. Almost no fading. I'll take the lock off and see if I can find some more marks.
Rick.

Jim McDougall · 14th May 2016, 08:42 PM

Thanks Rick!
On the European forum we are discussing EIC markings, and my thread is seeking any sword BLADES which are marked to the EIC. There has been a great deal of attention toward the outstanding work by David Harding 1997-99, "Small Arms of the East India Company". This is a huge 4 volume set and accordingly horrendously expensive.

kahnjar1 · 14th May 2016, 09:48 PM

As previously commented a VERY nice piece.

Stu

rickystl · 14th May 2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thanks Rick!
On the European forum we are discussing EIC markings, and my thread is seeking any sword BLADES which are marked to the EIC. There has been a great deal of attention toward the outstanding work by David Harding 1997-99, "Small Arms of the East India Company". This is a huge 4 volume set and accordingly horrendously expensive.

Hi Jim.
While not usually a blade guy, I've been following your Thread. And I noticed the lock on this gun dated 1803 fits the guidelines you posted.
An interesting coincidence was while I was corresponding with the gunsmith about the barrel, he asked me if I had a copy of Hardings "Introduction to EIC Small Arms" as per Richard's quote. He said to buy it - if you can find it!! I've Googled, but any reference says: not available, sold out, etc.
Rick

Berkley · 15th May 2016, 01:39 AM

Rick,
Congratulations on a fine acquisition. Until you can find your own copy of Harding, here's an excerpt which indeed confirms all the correct details on your lock.

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 02:11 PM

Hi Berkley.
Thanks so much for the pic. Much appreciated. One item that does not really appear in my photos is the inspector's mark below the pan. But it is there. It's the same tiny Crown, but the mark below the Crown I can't quite make out. Looks like a circle with a dot in the center. But I think it will be clear once the lock is cleaned. Thanks again for your assistance.
Rick.

kahnjar1 · 15th May 2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Berkley.
Thanks so much for the pic. Much appreciated. One item that does not really appear in my photos is the inspector's mark below the pan. But it is there. It's the same tiny Crown, but the mark below the Crown I can't quite make out. Looks like a circle with a dot in the center. But I think it will be clear once the lock is cleaned. Thanks again for your assistance.
Rick.

Crown over what looks like a 2

rickystl · 15th May 2016, 11:40 PM

Hi Stu.
Thanks for the comments. Yes, a "2" is what it looks like to me also under slight magnafication. Hope the cleaning will make it a bit more clear.
The rest of the marks are super sharp. On this lock, I'm not expecting to find any marks on the inside except a single number or letter.
Rick

Kubur · 18th May 2016, 03:17 PM

:-) and here the tourist ones...

BANDOOK · 19th May 2016, 12:41 PM

HAHA,NICE PICTURE KUBUR

BANDOOK · 19th May 2016, 12:46 PM

ONE MY JEZAIL WITH A SIND STYLE BUTT

kahnjar1 · 19th May 2016, 08:44 PM

Hi Rajesh,
I do not believe that the stock you show above is a Sind style stock but is what a usual Jezail stock is shaped like.
The pic below (one of yours I believe) shows what I would call a Sind style stock.
Stu

Kubur · 20th May 2016, 06:13 PM

Nice jezail and nice powder flask, Rajesh, congrats!
I'm afraid to say that Stu is right, looks very Afghan to me...

14th May 2016, 01:58 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Afghan Jazail Hello All. Well, I should have said I wasn't interested. The seller of the recently posted Ottoman Tufuk said he had a couple more Ethno guns he would offer me before putting them up for auction and asked if I would be interested. And his asking price for BOTH was to good to even negotiate. So..... This is a typical Afghan Jazail Long Gun. The barrel is 37" long smoothbore of about .67 caliber. Looks like someone cleaned the outside of the barrel sometime in the past using a chemical. The OAL is 50". The LOP is only about 10.5". So I believe this gun was possibly made for a younger man, maybe 12-14 years old. Most of these guns have a LOP of 11-12" for the male stature of the period and location. Simple brass barrel bands with probably 2-3 missing. There is only one hairline crack in the stock in front of the lock. Otherwise, the entire gun is very solid. And, what's amazing, is all of the inlays are still present!! I can't believe it. The authentic Trade lock is in working order. Just needs a little TLC on it's internals. I have not taken the lock off yet but will do so and report back. There are 3 items missing from the gun: 1. The ramrod is a wood replacement made by the seller. Looks OK for now, but the originals were iron. Will have to have one made. 2. The front sling attachement held by two missing barrel bands is missing. You can see the stock cut out where it use to reside. Looks lie it was missing from a long time ago. Not really anything to do about that. 3. The trigger guard is missing. There is a tiny piece of brass left where the guard was. I've located two, old original 19th Century non-military brass trigger guards that I think of of the two can be modified to fit. If not, I can have one made and aged to match. They were usually made of simple sheet brass. Anyway, as usual, picture heavy. Comments welcome, and thanks for looking. Rick.

14th May 2016, 02:07 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	FORGOT TO RE-SIZE THE PHOTOS........... Attached Images

14th May 2016, 02:08 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	MORE PICS....... Attached Images

14th May 2016, 02:10 PM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	STILL MORE........ Attached Images

14th May 2016, 02:11 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	LAST ONES............. Attached Images

14th May 2016, 04:41 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Rick, Nice good Jazail, no inlays missing and the lock is really cool. I have to say that these guns are so common in the UK that sellers don't give you the change instead they give you a Jazail...not like you...again very good lock...

14th May 2016, 05:21 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	great pics of the mkgs thanx

14th May 2016, 08:42 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	Thanks Rick! On the European forum we are discussing EIC markings, and my thread is seeking any sword BLADES which are marked to the EIC. There has been a great deal of attention toward the outstanding work by David Harding 1997-99, "Small Arms of the East India Company". This is a huge 4 volume set and accordingly horrendously expensive.

14th May 2016, 09:48 PM	#11
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	As previously commented a VERY nice piece. Stu

15th May 2016, 01:39 AM	#13
Berkley Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 257	Rick, Congratulations on a fine acquisition. Until you can find your own copy of Harding, here's an excerpt which indeed confirms all the correct details on your lock. Attached Images

15th May 2016, 02:11 PM	#14
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Berkley. Thanks so much for the pic. Much appreciated. One item that does not really appear in my photos is the inspector's mark below the pan. But it is there. It's the same tiny Crown, but the mark below the Crown I can't quite make out. Looks like a circle with a dot in the center. But I think it will be clear once the lock is cleaned. Thanks again for your assistance. Rick.

15th May 2016, 11:40 PM	#16
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Stu. Thanks for the comments. Yes, a "2" is what it looks like to me also under slight magnafication. Hope the cleaning will make it a bit more clear. The rest of the marks are super sharp. On this lock, I'm not expecting to find any marks on the inside except a single number or letter. Rick

18th May 2016, 03:17 PM	#17
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	:-) and here the tourist ones... Attached Images

19th May 2016, 12:41 PM	#18
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	HAHA,NICE PICTURE KUBUR

19th May 2016, 12:46 PM	#19
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	ONE MY JEZAIL WITH A SIND STYLE BUTT Attached Images

19th May 2016, 08:44 PM	#20
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Rajesh, I do not believe that the stock you show above is a Sind style stock but is what a usual Jezail stock is shaped like. The pic below (one of yours I believe) shows what I would call a Sind style stock. Stu Attached Images

20th May 2016, 06:13 PM	#21
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Nice jezail and nice powder flask, Rajesh, congrats! I'm afraid to say that Stu is right, looks very Afghan to me...