Destroying artwork

A. G. Maisey · 16th May 2016, 04:52 AM

David, the gentleman who gave me his ivory hilts cannot be thought of as a collector. Yes, he does have some small collections of various artifacts, but essentially he is a consultant in S.E.Asian art, his principal clients are museums and governmental bodies. He consults to museums, curates their exhibitions and writes accompanying material.

He has no faith at all that ivory artifacts held by museums in the U.S.A. will remain untouched in the long term. This is the reason he needed to find a safe place for his ivory hilts, he needed to move outside the reach of governmental bodies in the U.S.A.

Tim Simmons · 16th May 2016, 05:50 AM

Looking at the situation another way. You have to ask why did the auction house carry on with the sale? You could see them as equal in the mindless vandalism. There motivation was money with obvious disregard for what is artwork. Had I been the manager I would have refused to take the objects in. There may be a black market for some very fine works but for most ivory pieces , who really wants to spend large sums of money on something you will loose on. Antique values can go up and down just like other investments. You can pass them on or swap them. If I was weathy enough to have pieces of the quality shown here I would donate them to a museum or university or give to a friend on my demise.
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VANDOO · 16th May 2016, 05:59 AM

THE ONES WITH THE JOB OF MAKING NEW CITES REGULATIONS AND LAWS DON'T CARE IF LAWS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS OR ARE GOOD OR BAD. THEY JUST NEED TO KEEP CRANKING OUT NEW ONES TO KEEP THEIR JOBS SO THERE CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH REGULATIONS OR LAWS FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. THOSE HIRED TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS ARE HIRED TO MAKE NO DISTINCTION BUT ONLY TO CONFISCATE , DESTROY, FINE OR PROSECUTE ACCORDING TO THE BOOK. SO FOSSIL OR ANTIQUE , CULTURAL OR MASTERPIECE MEANS NOTHING TO THEM IF ITS ON THE LIST THE LAW MUST BE ENFORCED. THE ZOOS WHICH HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A HAVEN FOR THE BREEDING OF ENDANGERED SPECIES ARE ALSO UNDER ATTACK TO FREE WILLY EVEN IF WILLIE CAN NOT SURVIVE IN THE WILD AND LOVES THE ONLY LIFE HE EVER HAS KNOWN. MUSEUMS ARE NOT SAFE FROM THEM EITHER. HUMANS ARE NOT THE MOST INTELLIGENT SPECIES BUT THE MOST MIXED UP.

Tim Simmons · 16th May 2016, 06:39 AM

If not exported could the ivory, if not damaged, be given free to the buyer to reattach??

Robert · 16th May 2016, 07:47 AM

Tim, are asking about the ivory taken from the items this post is originally about? If you are, once our government gets its hands on something you have a better chance of capturing bigfoot than you do of ever getting it back from them.

16th May 2016, 04:52 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	David, the gentleman who gave me his ivory hilts cannot be thought of as a collector. Yes, he does have some small collections of various artifacts, but essentially he is a consultant in S.E.Asian art, his principal clients are museums and governmental bodies. He consults to museums, curates their exhibitions and writes accompanying material. He has no faith at all that ivory artifacts held by museums in the U.S.A. will remain untouched in the long term. This is the reason he needed to find a safe place for his ivory hilts, he needed to move outside the reach of governmental bodies in the U.S.A.

16th May 2016, 05:50 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Looking at the situation another way. You have to ask why did the auction house carry on with the sale? You could see them as equal in the mindless vandalism. There motivation was money with obvious disregard for what is artwork. Had I been the manager I would have refused to take the objects in. There may be a black market for some very fine works but for most ivory pieces , who really wants to spend large sums of money on something you will loose on. Antique values can go up and down just like other investments. You can pass them on or swap them. If I was weathy enough to have pieces of the quality shown here I would donate them to a museum or university or give to a friend on my demise. .

16th May 2016, 05:59 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE ONES WITH THE JOB OF MAKING NEW CITES REGULATIONS AND LAWS DON'T CARE IF LAWS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS OR ARE GOOD OR BAD. THEY JUST NEED TO KEEP CRANKING OUT NEW ONES TO KEEP THEIR JOBS SO THERE CAN NEVER BE ENOUGH REGULATIONS OR LAWS FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW. THOSE HIRED TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS ARE HIRED TO MAKE NO DISTINCTION BUT ONLY TO CONFISCATE , DESTROY, FINE OR PROSECUTE ACCORDING TO THE BOOK. SO FOSSIL OR ANTIQUE , CULTURAL OR MASTERPIECE MEANS NOTHING TO THEM IF ITS ON THE LIST THE LAW MUST BE ENFORCED. THE ZOOS WHICH HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A HAVEN FOR THE BREEDING OF ENDANGERED SPECIES ARE ALSO UNDER ATTACK TO FREE WILLY EVEN IF WILLIE CAN NOT SURVIVE IN THE WILD AND LOVES THE ONLY LIFE HE EVER HAS KNOWN. MUSEUMS ARE NOT SAFE FROM THEM EITHER. HUMANS ARE NOT THE MOST INTELLIGENT SPECIES BUT THE MOST MIXED UP.

16th May 2016, 06:39 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	If not exported could the ivory, if not damaged, be given free to the buyer to reattach??

16th May 2016, 07:47 AM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Tim, are asking about the ivory taken from the items this post is originally about? If you are, once our government gets its hands on something you have a better chance of capturing bigfoot than you do of ever getting it back from them.