Kaskara with interesting marks

DaveS · 10th May 2016, 03:40 AM

Jim: Sorry for not responding sooner, as i've been traveling these last couple of weeks to shows. It's unfortunate that on some swords such as this one that these marks will probably never be completly understood. When i first saw these markings i first thought they looked like roman numerals, and had to be some kind of talasmanic thing, but some of the above comments make me think that maybe they could be an old ethiopean style of dialect. I have a dozen or so kaskaras and have seen many more, but none with this kind of lettering. I have a gurade that has what i think is coptic script that i will post pictures of next week...........Dave.

Jim McDougall · 10th May 2016, 04:26 PM

Ed,
Thank you so much!!! Brilliantly observed, and I confess I had not thought of Roman numerals used in repetitive linear motif. The note on the significance of numerology in Christian and Hebrew religions is indeed an important factor and particularly here in what may be invocative or commemorative.
It is interesting that the thuluth covered blades known in the Sudan are also using similar invocative repetitive style using Quranic phrases or wording.
I really appreciate your input on this, as your knowledge on the weapons of these regions is always key in our discussions.

Dave,
Thank you for the note and hope your trips have been successful.
As mentioned, often these kinds of situations are the case, and as this example was most interesting we were anxious to know your response as well as any further details.
Looking forward to your posts with any other examples as we continue to look into these Ethiopian inscriptions on arms.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th May 2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ed,
Thank you so much!!! Brilliantly observed, and I confess I had not thought of Roman numerals used in repetitive linear motif. The note on the significance of numerology in Christian and Hebrew religions is indeed an important factor and particularly here in what may be invocative or commemorative.
It is interesting that the thuluth covered blades known in the Sudan are also using similar invocative repetitive style using Quranic phrases or wording.
I really appreciate your input on this, as your knowledge on the weapons of these regions is always key in our discussions.

Dave,
Thank you for the note and hope your trips have been successful.
As mentioned, often these kinds of situations are the case, and as this example was most interesting we were anxious to know your response as well as any further details.
Looking forward to your posts with any other examples as we continue to look into these Ethiopian inscriptions on arms.

It is clear that Roman numerals played a key part in decorating blades in these regions...I mean that is how my brain works relating the Christian situation in the Holy Roman Empire ~ but is that the case...? www.geez.com puts it a little differently Quote'' Ethiopic numerals have a familiar quality about them that seems to catch the eye and pique the imagination of the first-time viewer. In particular, the bars above and below the letter-like symbols appear reminiscent of their Roman counterparts. The symbols in between the bars, however, are clearly not of Roman origin. The shapes appear Ethiopic but only half seem to correspond to Ethiopic syllables and in an incomprehensible order.

The Tuareg/Berber symbol repertoire appears to be drawn from overlapping categories that include Eastern Arabic and Perso-Arabic numerals and possibly Western digits and Indian Devanagari numbers as well; Arabic letters; Tifinagh characters; and the Islamic Seven Seals (the
ism al-aʿẓ amor Greatest Name).

Are the numbers not a corrupted pattern derived of the Seven Seals?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th May 2016, 09:04 PM

In many ways the key to understanding on these weapons and other Sahel variants is on http://iainnorman.com/

CharlesS · 26th May 2016, 09:42 PM

We have discussed a similar topic of "nonsense script" on a sboula sword here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=sboula

Jim McDougall · 27th May 2016, 01:30 AM

Excellent link Charles, and the topic was the s'boula dagger of Morocco which had a limited presence in Amharic context in Ethiopia as well as designated a 'Zanzibar' sword (Burton, 1885).

The 'nonsense' script described is actually a native effort at copying what appears to be the curious European inscriptions on many blades, particularly Spanish and Italian. These were often Roman letters confluenced with magical sigils or talismanic glyphs, and in sequenced linear repetition (Caino and Picinino in Italy). These were strangely sequenced, but rearranged in alternating groupings, so unlikely to be acrostics as many other blades.
The NONON and 'I's as well as other medieval groupings (many discussed in Oakeshott) are most typically invocations, and the magical sigils heightened the power imbued in them.

When these European blades entered the native contexts, they were intrigued by these markings which were of course focused on by traders extolling the virtues and power of them. Naturally native artisans would try to capture these qualities by imitating these inscriptions.

10th May 2016, 03:40 AM	#1
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	Interesting kaskara Jim: Sorry for not responding sooner, as i've been traveling these last couple of weeks to shows. It's unfortunate that on some swords such as this one that these marks will probably never be completly understood. When i first saw these markings i first thought they looked like roman numerals, and had to be some kind of talasmanic thing, but some of the above comments make me think that maybe they could be an old ethiopean style of dialect. I have a dozen or so kaskaras and have seen many more, but none with this kind of lettering. I have a gurade that has what i think is coptic script that i will post pictures of next week...........Dave.

10th May 2016, 04:26 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Ed, Thank you so much!!! Brilliantly observed, and I confess I had not thought of Roman numerals used in repetitive linear motif. The note on the significance of numerology in Christian and Hebrew religions is indeed an important factor and particularly here in what may be invocative or commemorative. It is interesting that the thuluth covered blades known in the Sudan are also using similar invocative repetitive style using Quranic phrases or wording. I really appreciate your input on this, as your knowledge on the weapons of these regions is always key in our discussions. Dave, Thank you for the note and hope your trips have been successful. As mentioned, often these kinds of situations are the case, and as this example was most interesting we were anxious to know your response as well as any further details. Looking forward to your posts with any other examples as we continue to look into these Ethiopian inscriptions on arms.

26th May 2016, 09:04 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	In many ways the key to understanding on these weapons and other Sahel variants is on http://iainnorman.com/

26th May 2016, 09:42 PM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	We have discussed a similar topic of "nonsense script" on a sboula sword here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=sboula

27th May 2016, 01:30 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Excellent link Charles, and the topic was the s'boula dagger of Morocco which had a limited presence in Amharic context in Ethiopia as well as designated a 'Zanzibar' sword (Burton, 1885). The 'nonsense' script described is actually a native effort at copying what appears to be the curious European inscriptions on many blades, particularly Spanish and Italian. These were often Roman letters confluenced with magical sigils or talismanic glyphs, and in sequenced linear repetition (Caino and Picinino in Italy). These were strangely sequenced, but rearranged in alternating groupings, so unlikely to be acrostics as many other blades. The NONON and 'I's as well as other medieval groupings (many discussed in Oakeshott) are most typically invocations, and the magical sigils heightened the power imbued in them. When these European blades entered the native contexts, they were intrigued by these markings which were of course focused on by traders extolling the virtues and power of them. Naturally native artisans would try to capture these qualities by imitating these inscriptions.