Kora

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

LOL!!!
Fascinating notes on this type of armor, I thought Ian was using the term 'elephant' as metaphorical referring to the size of this guy
In any case, there are of course cases of various armor used in India (Rajputs?) which were referred to as 'coat of nails'. I doubt that they had these huge spikes, but who knows.......after all, this IS from a DURBAR

Jim, looking back I see that it was actually Oliver that initially mentioned that the armor was made from "elephant armor". Since this image appears to date back to the late 1800s I do not know how it would be from the 1903 Delhi durbar.

Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot

This photo is from a 1903 edition of National Geographic, commemorating the Delhi Durbar held in that year, which celebrated the accession of Edward VII. In the photo is a no-nonsense character in fanciful armor (some of it repurposed from an elephant armor)

The "coat of nails" that you mention is actually "chilta hazar masha"or "coat of a thousand nails" which is made up of layers of fabric faced with velvet and studded with numerous small brass nails, which were often gilded. The padded coat, minus its nails, is known for short as a chilta and was worn over armour or on its own. Fabric armour was very popular in India because metal became very hot under the Indian sun.

[Ian]

estrch:

I was referring to an earlier comment by Oliver Pinchot about the elephant armor.

Incidentally, The Wide World Magazine is probably not the best source of factual and reliable information. A British monthly publication from 1898-1965, it was the perpetrator of a major hoax through the serial publication of "The Adventures of Louis de Rougement" who was supposed to have spent many years in outback Australia. When the magazine shut down, The Times of London described it as running mostly stories about "brave chaps with large moustaches on stiff upper lips, who did stupid and dangerous things." Not exactly National Geographic.

Ian

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Ian

The Wide World Magazine is probably not the best source of factual and reliable information.

Ian

Ian, I do not doubt that, but the image was published in The Wide World Magazine, 1898 so I am not sure how it could be claimed as an 1903 durbar image, one date is wrong.

[ariel]

Estrch,

Might well be a Durbar-type costume: staged picture or theatrical costume.
Just like the Kora.
If they were connected in some capacity to the Durbar pageant, they would have antiquarian value; if not, they would be worth the cost of materials.

But still, admit it, the journalist mentioning Gilbert and Sullivan defined this costume very well:-)

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Estrch,

Might well be a Durbar-type costume: staged picture or theatrical costume.
Just like the Kora.
If they were connected in some capacity to the Durbar pageant, they would have antiquarian value; if not, they would be worth the cost of materials.

But still, admit it, the journalist mentioning Gilbert and Sullivan defined this costume very well:-)

Ariel, we would just be speculating, it could just as well be an older type of armor that has been re-purposed, when it comes to Indian armor and weapons you just never know, which is why I have an interest in them over lets say American civil war weapons. Here is a similar example, this spiked armor is said to be Siberian bear hunting armor...is it...could be, maybe not, without further info I can not comment further. Maybe the spiked Indian armor was originally used for hunting dangerous animals or some sort of blood sport between fighters, who can say for sure??

The object is being called a Siberian bear-hunting suit,
but I suspect it is more likely to be for bear baiting than hunting,
since I can't imagine anyone could run around the woods in it. It
consists of leather pants and jacket (and an iron helmet) studded
all over with 1-inch iron nails about 3/4 in. apart. The nails are
held in place by a second layer of leather lining the whole thing
and quilted into place between the nails.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Here is a similar example, this spiked armor is said to be Siberian bear hunting armor...is it...could be, maybe not, without further info I can not comment further. Maybe the spiked Indian armor was originally used for hunting dangerous animals or some sort of blood sport between fighters, who can say for sure??

Now I know where the idea for the Pinhead from "Hellraiser" came from.

My son, who is a horror movie encyclopedia, also mentioned a Russian movie by some budding Fellini named Andrei Iskanov titled "Nails".
Seems hammering nails into the head might be a national Siberian pastime.
You know, a bottle of vodka, a pickle, some body piercing with 9 inch brights ... and off we go to get us a bear:-))))

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Now I know where the idea for the Pinhead from "Hellraiser" came from.

My son, who is a horror movie encyclopedia, also mentioned a Russian movie by some budding Fellini named Andrei Iskanov titled "Nails".
Seems hammering nails into the head might be a national Siberian pastime.
You know, a bottle of vodka, a pickle, some body piercing with 9 inch brights ... and off we go to get us a bear:-))))

There is a precedent for spikes being used against animals in India, there are examples of spiked doors being used to keep elephants from breaking them down and below is a picture of what is said to be a spiked ball used to hang in the door of elephant stables to keep the elephants from leaving. The "executioners armor" could have been originally for tiger hunting or fighting with wild animals, a known sport in some parts of India.

[ariel]

Estrch,
Every time I see this pic I am always wondering: why should an executioner need a helmet, a shield and a heavily-spiked coat? Was he supposed to duel with the convicted person, and how was he supposed to strike with his humongous tegha without impaling his own arm?

I am sure it is a staged portrait to terrify British accountants and rosy-cheeked milkmaids:-)

" By Jove! 'ad it not been for 'is Majesty, these savages would 'ave eaten each other alive! Mistuh 'ennessy, I'll 'ave bangers and a pint of bittuh. Double quick."

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

Estrch,
Every time I see this pic I am always wondering: why should an executioner need a helmet, a shield and a heavily-spiked coat? Was he supposed to duel with the convicted person, and how was he supposed to strike with his humongous tegha without impaling his own arm?

Ariel, armor is not necessarily for protection, it was probably part of the show, for the spectators of an event. if this man was actually an executioner then making him seen ferocious would make sense. I can not comment on the usefullness of the armor only that it appears to not be made from parts of an elephant armor as far as I can tell.

Armor was worn by some participants of durbars and other state events, I do not think it was necessary for protection in this case either, but the armor was real, just from a different (earlier) time period.

Bikaner soldiers wearing armor for the Prince of Wales visit to India in 1875-76.

These mail and plate shirts are from a large group of armor that was stored in the Bikaner armory in Rajastan, northern India. Maharaja Anup Singh (reigned 1669–98) was a general in the armies of the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb and led a series of campaigns in the Deccan in the 1680s and 1690s, including battles at Golconda in 1687 and Adoni in 1689. Dates on similar armors indicate that they taken as war trophys during one of the Deccan campaigns. In recent years some of these armors were sold off to dealers and have ended up in private and public collections.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

These mail and plate shirts are from a large group of armor that was stored in the Bikaner armory in Rajastan, northern India. Maharaja Anup Singh (reigned 1669–98) was a general in the armies of the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb and led a series of campaigns in the Deccan in the 1680s and 1690s, including battles at Golconda in 1687 and Adoni in 1689. Dates on similar armors indicate that they taken as war trophys during one of the Deccan campaigns. In recent years some of these armors were sold off to dealers and have ended up in private and public collections.

estcrh,
you notice in the picture we see the real weapons and armor. But we do not see the grotesque objects similar discussion to the sword (Kora)