Kaskara with interesting marks

Jim McDougall · 29th April 2016, 05:55 AM

Dave,
this kaskara is most interesting and I recognized those markings as from discussions long ago, in fact I finally found information from June, 2005 .
In that discussion, everyone was pretty bewildered by these unusual markings, but 'Roanoa' who has long been our 'go to' guy on Ethiopian weapons had the answer.
He claims kaskaras with this motif were from Eritrea.

In other research over the years it seems that it has been suggested that the head on these may represent King Johannes IV of Ethiopia, who fought against incursions from the Italians, as well as the Mahdists. He was killed by them at the Battle of Gallabat March 10, 1889, and later his body was captured by Mahdist forces. The corpse was beheaded and the head taken to Omdurman as a trophy.
The curious 'numerals' or characters may represent Amharic in stylized form (they look nothing like it really), but neither of these ideas are overly compelling.
The lion represents interpretation of the Ethiopian Lion of Judah.

It does seem that several of these are known, one was a blade alone.
In any case the possibility remains Eritrean and probably end 19th early 20th c.

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2016, 06:21 AM

Always glad to be of help.

Battara · 6th May 2016, 03:48 PM

I may be wrong, but the script does not look Amhamric to me to be Ethopian. Could they be talismanic?

Jim McDougall · 6th May 2016, 05:34 PM

Hi Jose,
Thank you so much for the support. It is always disappointing when a query is posted and from nearly two hundred views, there is not a single response beyond my entry last week. This is a most curious blade, as I noted, and as it is pretty obscure among most kaskara data, it took me quite a long time through old notes to find clues.

This most interesting motif in the fullers appears to be a linear approach to certain stylized impressions of what may have been the stamped cartouche of Mashin Khana in Kabul in the 1890s. By about 1900 this was also in a round cartouche, and these are often so degenerated or worn the most prominent features are the lines in the device.

I have seen a knife of unclear origin (but likely Nepali or regions in Northern Bengal) with three of these squares and another kaskara with a single square cartouche with this type of image, but no illustrations at hand, just my notes.

I know there are guys out there who collect kaskara and this as I have noted probably goes to Ethiopia and Eritrea. I once had a friend from Eritrea who was Beja, and knew kaskara well (they never heard that term) and shared a video of tribal dances using them (the sa'if broadsword)

I know this is not Amharic, nor any particular script as these are simply linear repeated characters which are just lines in X's and I's . Thus, I would doubt talismanic unless there is some numerical order, and more likely to be a stylized 'impression' of the Amharic or other script.
With the singular instances (and triple on the knife) it is hard to say what these mean,

Perhaps one day someone out there might recognize these markings ( lately I have seen threads come up from nearly a decade ago!).

Thanks again Jose, very much appreciated .

Battara · 7th May 2016, 12:07 AM

I guess I was wondering if the numbers might be talismanic. In some cultures, certain numbers carry more meaning than they do here in the US.

Another thought is that they might be made to look like talismanic numbers, but might just be gibberish. Seen a lot of these too.......

Jim McDougall · 7th May 2016, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I guess I was wondering if the numbers might be talismanic. In some cultures, certain numbers carry more meaning than they do here in the US.

Another thought is that they might be made to look like talismanic numbers, but might just be gibberish. Seen a lot of these too.......

Very true, there are many possibilities, and it seems like they went to a great deal of trouble to exaggerate these characters which seem like Roman numerals. Whenever these kinds of embellishments show up in this manner on blades, they may be gibberish to most, but to some there may have been some arcane meaning.

29th April 2016, 05:55 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Dave, this kaskara is most interesting and I recognized those markings as from discussions long ago, in fact I finally found information from June, 2005 . In that discussion, everyone was pretty bewildered by these unusual markings, but 'Roanoa' who has long been our 'go to' guy on Ethiopian weapons had the answer. He claims kaskaras with this motif were from Eritrea. In other research over the years it seems that it has been suggested that the head on these may represent King Johannes IV of Ethiopia, who fought against incursions from the Italians, as well as the Mahdists. He was killed by them at the Battle of Gallabat March 10, 1889, and later his body was captured by Mahdist forces. The corpse was beheaded and the head taken to Omdurman as a trophy. The curious 'numerals' or characters may represent Amharic in stylized form (they look nothing like it really), but neither of these ideas are overly compelling. The lion represents interpretation of the Ethiopian Lion of Judah. It does seem that several of these are known, one was a blade alone. In any case the possibility remains Eritrean and probably end 19th early 20th c. Attached Images

6th May 2016, 06:21 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Always glad to be of help.

6th May 2016, 03:48 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I may be wrong, but the script does not look Amhamric to me to be Ethopian. Could they be talismanic?

6th May 2016, 05:34 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Jose, Thank you so much for the support. It is always disappointing when a query is posted and from nearly two hundred views, there is not a single response beyond my entry last week. This is a most curious blade, as I noted, and as it is pretty obscure among most kaskara data, it took me quite a long time through old notes to find clues. This most interesting motif in the fullers appears to be a linear approach to certain stylized impressions of what may have been the stamped cartouche of Mashin Khana in Kabul in the 1890s. By about 1900 this was also in a round cartouche, and these are often so degenerated or worn the most prominent features are the lines in the device. I have seen a knife of unclear origin (but likely Nepali or regions in Northern Bengal) with three of these squares and another kaskara with a single square cartouche with this type of image, but no illustrations at hand, just my notes. I know there are guys out there who collect kaskara and this as I have noted probably goes to Ethiopia and Eritrea. I once had a friend from Eritrea who was Beja, and knew kaskara well (they never heard that term) and shared a video of tribal dances using them (the sa'if broadsword) I know this is not Amharic, nor any particular script as these are simply linear repeated characters which are just lines in X's and I's . Thus, I would doubt talismanic unless there is some numerical order, and more likely to be a stylized 'impression' of the Amharic or other script. With the singular instances (and triple on the knife) it is hard to say what these mean, Perhaps one day someone out there might recognize these markings ( lately I have seen threads come up from nearly a decade ago!). Thanks again Jose, very much appreciated .

7th May 2016, 12:07 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I guess I was wondering if the numbers might be talismanic. In some cultures, certain numbers carry more meaning than they do here in the US. Another thought is that they might be made to look like talismanic numbers, but might just be gibberish. Seen a lot of these too.......