A blunderbuss with an early lock

Pukka Bundook · 3rd April 2016, 05:42 AM

RE ash,

No clue on Portugal, but ash was used at this time in England and Northern Europe, even for matchlock tillers/stocks. It wasn't the only wood used, as walnut, fruitwood and elm were used and walnut being the most popular. Maple /sycamore used as well.

The ring type vise pin in the cock is more Spanish ,Portuguese/Mediterranean, but very practical and sometimes seen even in Scotland. Could well be a replacement sometime in its very long life.

Has the barrel any proofs?

iskender · 3rd April 2016, 08:48 PM

good evening ,aside the yaw-screw i possess a very similar rifle in its original configuration ,the allmost identical barrel has 2 british proofmarks on the left side of the barrel. the gun is 84 cm long . there is a good chance this very early doglock-carbine is from england. (my guess) iskender Switzerland

iskender · 3rd April 2016, 09:02 PM

gentlemen ; Sorry for calling my carbine a rifle as it has no rifling and that is a inacurat therm for it. .It is Just the fakt that in switzerland most of the men call every "rifle" that looks like a broomstick a " Flinte" even when it is a full auto assault rifle ! gretings iskender

Pukka Bundook · 4th April 2016, 01:01 AM

Iskender,

I understand, and believe the same word "flinte" is used in Germany is it not?

Best wishes,
Richard.

corrado26 · 4th April 2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

I understand, and believe the same word "flinte" is used in Germany is it not?

Yes, the word "Flinte" is a German word and as a great part of the Swiss are talking in German language they use the same expression
corrado26

iskender · 4th April 2016, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=Pukka Bundook]Iskender,

I understand, and believe the same word "flinte" is used in Germany is it not?

richard, in germany and the swiss-german kantons , a long handgun with a smoothbore barrel is called a "Flinte" the same with a rifled barrel is called a "Büchse". so a dubbelbarreld shotgun is a "Doppelflinte", a long gun with 2 rifled barrels is a "Doppelbüchse" ,a combination can be things like "Bockbüchsflinte" ,"Doppelbockbüchse" and many variants more , specially made in Ferlach in form of high quality "Hunting-rifles". A blunderbuss we call a "Tromblon" with is french, the germans call that thing a "Donnerbüchse" with is technically incorrekt as the Tromblon is mostly a smoothbore "flinte" and not a "büchse", but who cares about things like that ! (nobody). greetings Iskender

kronckew · 4th April 2016, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iskender

...a dubbelbarreld shotgun is a "Doppelflinte", a long gun with 2 rifled barrels is a "Doppelbüchse" ,a combination can be things like "Bockbüchsflinte" ,"Doppelbockbüchse"..

timeout: bier time, or a nice taylors. ruby red port.

i had a loosiana cajun buddy in texas on a construction project we were supervising, his name was tom hebert (pronounced A-Bear) he told me a story about his grandpere beudreaux (boo-drow) hebert. on day he was returning from a duck hunt and tom saw beudreaux had 40 mallards in his pirogue (dugout canoe).

tom said 'hi granpaw, that's a lotta ducks, how many shells did it take? you musta bin shootin all day!

ol' beudreaux said, jes two. , is all i needed.my two-hole shootsgun jus hols two shell. twenny beebee each shell. bin gone jes a haff hour.

tom said 'grandad, i don't believe you, yer tellin me a tall tale.

ol' beudreaux sez, you yung whippersnapper, you get up at 5 a.m. termorra and comes a shootin wif me & i'll show you. betcha a whole dollar i get a dock wif evry beebee.

now that was a whole days wage back then.

next day they goes ahuntin' in the pirogue agin. flock of mllard docks flies by overhead. beaudreax lets fly with the left barrel. 20 duckies fall into the pirogue. he lets fly with the right barrel. 19 ducks fall into the boat. tom says excitedly 'i win! you only got 19!' just then a mallard comes flyin by, a duckin' and a divin' and loop de loopin', followed by that last tenacious beebee, beudreax sez 'son, jus wait a minute...'.

i know this is a true story, tom showed me that two hole shootsgun. or mebbe it was a Doppelflinte. in any case, it had two external hammers. the story is easier to believe if you tell it in a french accent tho. tom even showed me the dollar was missin from his wallet.

p.s. - beudreaux was also a frugal ol' sod, he dug them beebee outta them docks and reused them. they got smarter every time he did. thats why tom had the shootsgun, beu didn't need it enny more. whenever he wants a dock dinner he just throws a few o' them beebees out the winder an they fetch him a passle of docks.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled dissertation.

fernando · 5th April 2016, 01:57 PM

Thank you so much for your input, Philip.
Meanwhile i have browsing on this thing ...
Norman pretends that this system is probably of Spanish or Moorish origin, then used by Brits during the second half XVII century, as you well mention.
Lavin mentions and shows a sketch of a Sinhalese (agujeta) lock as being introduced there by the Portuguese (prior to 1658), familiar with this system, with a calço atras (back wedge).
If you notice in Espingarda Perfeita by R. Daehnhardt, one example in the last row (1620-1680) is such Sinhales type again.
... or am i mixing the whole thing ...

.

3rd April 2016, 08:48 PM	#2
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	britisch doglock ? good evening ,aside the yaw-screw i possess a very similar rifle in its original configuration ,the allmost identical barrel has 2 british proofmarks on the left side of the barrel. the gun is 84 cm long . there is a good chance this very early doglock-carbine is from england. (my guess) iskender Switzerland

3rd April 2016, 09:02 PM	#3
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	british doglock ? gentlemen ; Sorry for calling my carbine a rifle as it has no rifling and that is a inacurat therm for it. .It is Just the fakt that in switzerland most of the men call every "rifle" that looks like a broomstick a " Flinte" even when it is a full auto assault rifle ! gretings iskender

4th April 2016, 03:19 PM	#6
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	flinte/büchse/ tromblon [QUOTE=Pukka Bundook]Iskender, I understand, and believe the same word "flinte" is used in Germany is it not? richard, in germany and the swiss-german kantons , a long handgun with a smoothbore barrel is called a "Flinte" the same with a rifled barrel is called a "Büchse". so a dubbelbarreld shotgun is a "Doppelflinte", a long gun with 2 rifled barrels is a "Doppelbüchse" ,a combination can be things like "Bockbüchsflinte" ,"Doppelbockbüchse" and many variants more , specially made in Ferlach in form of high quality "Hunting-rifles". A blunderbuss we call a "Tromblon" with is french, the germans call that thing a "Donnerbüchse" with is technically incorrekt as the Tromblon is mostly a smoothbore "flinte" and not a "büchse", but who cares about things like that ! (nobody). greetings Iskender

3rd April 2016, 05:42 AM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	RE ash, No clue on Portugal, but ash was used at this time in England and Northern Europe, even for matchlock tillers/stocks. It wasn't the only wood used, as walnut, fruitwood and elm were used and walnut being the most popular. Maple /sycamore used as well. The ring type vise pin in the cock is more Spanish ,Portuguese/Mediterranean, but very practical and sometimes seen even in Scotland. Could well be a replacement sometime in its very long life. Has the barrel any proofs?

4th April 2016, 01:01 AM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Iskender, I understand, and believe the same word "flinte" is used in Germany is it not? Best wishes, Richard.

5th April 2016, 01:57 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much for your input, Philip. Meanwhile i have browsing on this thing ... Norman pretends that this system is probably of Spanish or Moorish origin, then used by Brits during the second half XVII century, as you well mention. Lavin mentions and shows a sketch of a Sinhalese (agujeta) lock as being introduced there by the Portuguese (prior to 1658), familiar with this system, with a calço atras (back wedge). If you notice in Espingarda Perfeita by R. Daehnhardt, one example in the last row (1620-1680) is such Sinhales type again. ... or am i mixing the whole thing ... .