Would This Indian Sword Classify as a Sousson Patah???

[estcrh]

This sword looks to me like a kopis influenced blade, any more information on them or additional examples

[ariel]

By using a term " kopis-influenced" are we assuming or asserting that Indian forward-leaning swords are descending from Greek Kopis?

[mariusgmioc]

Interesting question considering that the Greek under Alexander the Great reached the North of India. But I guess we will never know the exact answer and this topic will be open for speculations decades from now.

[kai]

Hello Ariel,

By using a term " kopis-influenced" are we assuming or asserting that Indian forward-leaning swords are descending from Greek Kopis?

I also feel that this would be a pretty Euro-centric assumption, especially considering that these blades seem to be classic southern Indian.

Even kopis-like appears to be somewhat of a stretch IMVHO. Forward-curved and recurved blades seems to describe things nicely without comparing apples to oranges.

While typical SP and kirach swords have full-sized blades, these recurved blades tend to be shorter. Preferred as a melee weapon? (Some of these certainly don't strike me as merely being ceremonial...)

Regards,
Kai

[kai]

Here's another example; wootz blade:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=991

Regards,
Kai

[ariel]

I think the last blade is a local imitation of Ottoman Yataghan. Clumsy, but even with yataghan- inspired plates at the ricasso.

Indians had forward-curving blades galore from times immemorial, especially down South, an area untouched by the Macedonian Greeks. Also, conflating Greek Kopis and Egyptian Khopesh is a stretch: blade configurations were distinctly dissimilar. Kopis was yataghan-like with the edge on the concave side, while Khopesh was a "sickle sword" with sharpened convex side.

Kopis might have mutated into Iberian Falcata, but Khopesh was endemic to Egypt and had nothing to do with any other pattern, except for the Assyrian Sappara. But these two fought each other like crazy, so sharing weapon patterns is not a surprise.
In this vein, I find especially amusing the descriptions of Laz Bichaq , a short-lived 19 century device of Pontic Greeks and Muslim Georgians, as a direct descendant of Egyptian Khopesh. We are talking 3-4 thousand years gap with no similar configuration of blade anywhere else! :-)

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

By using a term " kopis-influenced" are we assuming or asserting that Indian forward-leaning swords are descending from Greek Kopis?

I have on knowledge of this except what I see being discussed on various forums. Maybe the term should be "kopis type" and not "kopis influenced"?

Kopis type blades of the Indian subcontinent. Adapted from Phillip Rawson's The Indian Sword.

[estcrh]

I guess it would be helpful to have an actual Greek kopis here for comparison.

A Greek Kopis sword (from excavations) known as “Falcata” in the western Mediterranean. The Greek Hoplite sword was double-edged. The blade was wider in the middle of its length so that the weight was concentrated to this point. The Greek sword was used equally for perforation of the enemy.

The two below are supposedly in the Met, labled as "Iron Machaira (sword)
Greek, 5th-4th century B.C", the last one is from a museum in Barcelona, labled as an "Iberian falcata".