Kalis / Kris / Keris Sundang / Solot / Sulok / Suluk:

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by David

The Dutch connection is in the spellings Amuk is using which are Dutch transliterations of specific native terms. The combination of "oe" is common to the Dutch.

Yes David, I can confirm this is true!

[Spunjer]

thanks for the link, Alan.
i can't find the term "lanteh" by itself in Cowie's book either, other than where it's mentioned with the kris.

for what it's worth, a straight blade kalis is also known as Kalis Waysiku or Kalis Buntul, depending which part of Sulu you're from...

[Spunjer]

i really thought this particular post was going to be an interesting discussion, but evidently not...

it seems to be the hang up is the language used in the description of the krises. as Maurice has confirmed, it's a dutch transliterations of native terms. IMHO, the language is Bahasa Sug, language of the people of Sulu. Kris 5, 6 and 7 got my attention.

Per Amul:
5) Kalis Lanteh Bandoeh
6) Kalis Lanteh Liamai
7) Kalis Lanteh Agoeboekoe

Per Cowie's Book:
Kalis Lanteh Bandos
Kalis Lanteh Liamai
Kalis Lanteh Agau Buku

Then we have the numerical system:
Teloe
Lima
Pitoe
Siam
Hangpotaglima
Hangpotagesa
Kaoehantagteloe
Kaoehantagsiam

for the Bahasa Sug's system, i've attached a couple of pages from Cowie's book

then the term Sekoe (Siku in Bahasa Sug). oh, and Sarimanoek (Sarimanok)

so there it is. it would be nice if Amul can comment back. would love to know how you got the nomenclature for these krises. for the time being, here's what he said from another thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=12

the way i look at it, if those child-size kris pocket knives from Indonesia have unique nomenclature, why can't these krises have them as well. now it's just a matter of figuring out why it was called that way...

[David]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

the way i look at it, if those child-size kris pocket knives from Indonesia have unique nomenclature, why can't these krises have them as well.

Hey! I think thems might be fightin' words!
And just for a bit of support i am with you on Sarimanok.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks for that clarification Ron.

I personally find this info on the language used very interesting indeed.

[Ian]

Ron:

I think it's not a lack of interest so much as a lack of knowledge that inhibits discussion somewhat. You have presented the evidence clearly and I think you are correct. Also, what Cato labels as Tausug in his terminology (as I presented above in the scanned image from his book) would seem to be the same language that you have called Bahasa Sug--a form of Malay spoken in the Sulu Archipelago a century ago, possibly showing some Visayan influence (which would not be surprising).

Ian.

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i really thought this particular post was going to be an interesting discussion, but evidently not...

it seems to be the hang up is the language used in the description of the krises. as Maurice has confirmed, it's a dutch transliterations of native terms. IMHO, the language is Bahasa Sug, language of the people of Sulu. ...

[Spunjer]

yes, the Tausug (per Cato), and Bahasa Sug is one and the same. the latter is the more formal term. and yes, the similarity is strong esp. with the southern Visayan dialects.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Just thought I'd snap'n'post these before cleaning ..... just for sharing.

Best,

1. Balikoeng

Desc: Kalis Baladaw Naga Galap Teloe Sikoe .
Blade: LxOALxWxT=41.5x54.5x10.08x1.30cm.; Front white-mtl katig.
Handle: Sarimanoek (generic) wood pommel w/ horn sides & white-mtl sleeve w/ floral motif.

2. Lanteh Banasi

Desc: Kalis Baladaw Naga Galap Siam Sikoe .
Blade: LxOALxWxT=60x73x12.15x1.33cm.; Front white-mtl katig.
Handle: Saboeng pommel, wood w/ string wrap.

3. Lanteh Djanasah

Desc: Kalis Baladaw Naga Galap HangpohTagSiam Sikoe .
Blade: LxOALxWxT=49x62x1.32x9.52cm.; Front and back katig.
Handle: Ivory Laboejoeh pommel w/ white-mtl collar.

[Amuk Murugul]

CORRECTIONS TO POST #1:
- item 5. should read '5. Kalis Lanteh Banasi (9-wave Blade)'
- items 8. and 9., the word Endas should be 'Andas'.
My apologies.