Kalis / Kris / Keris Sundang / Solot / Sulok / Suluk:

Spunjer · 30th March 2016, 12:09 AM

Alan, it was my assumption that it meant wavy in Malay based on a book that was written by Andson Cowie in 1893, an Englishman that resided in Borneo at that time ("English Sulu Malay Vocabulary"). I stand corrected.

what led me to that conclusion was, the kalis, or kris were divided into two groups according to this book: either it's wavy (kalis lanteh), or straight (kalis tu'lid). there's no mention of semi-wavy.

in Cato's book, he called the semi wavy blades as Kalis Talu-seko. sounds too much like the description on kalis no. 2 (kalis teloe sekoe, "three wave kris") which, by having three waves would indeed be a half wave/half straight. what about a five wave blade with a straight tip? would that still be a talu-seko, or is it now called a lima seko? so my assumption is it's included in the wavy category. furthermore, the categories were subdivided into different types.

for me, that brought up a whole new dimension because now what we might think as a Maranao blade based on its katik could actually be a type of kalis or kris mentioned by this book, as oppose to what Cato assumed. another thing that got me interested with Amuk's classification (whether it was copied or not) is each kris has a description, similar to the way it was described in this book. whether it's confusing or not, there must be a reason why it was called that way. i understand the spelling is confusing, but it might have been spelled phonetically by a colonialist. regardless, i believe it was called that way for a reason.

I have already given the nomenclature of the different types of wavy kalis. as far as the kalis tu'lid or straight blade kalis, it was subdivided into these variations:
kalis tu'lid samsil
kalis tu'lid bunga bung loi
kalis tu'lid balangkas
kalis tu'lid ka-kolang-an
kalis tu'lid dasag
kalis tu'lid dapau
kalis tu'lid panas
kalis tu'lid sabli

then we have the barung that was subdivided further into six different types:
tunggal
kamas
laipan
binlihan
angkun (i believe this type is the one that has the 'chinese' chopmark on the blade)
to

as far as budiak, it was subdivided into 12 different types which i'm not gonna get into.

regarding the term "lanti", it is indeed Bahasa Sug, albeit this particular term is "archaic" as explained to me by a Tausug friend of mine.

David, you said:
Why saying "Kalis Naga Galap Lima Sikoe" should be any more correct than simply saying "Kris with Snake-like Five-Wave Blade" is beyond me in this case

that's no more different than someone is saying "I'm carrying a Springfield Armory XD Mod 2 sub-compact 9mm pistol"
and i don't think that's what it tried to convey. my thinking would be like "Kalis Naga Galap, lima sekoe" (comma included), which would now translate to "Kalis Snake-like, five waves variation"

now, we can go either way. put this aside because it's confusing, and cato's words are gold, or look at it as a whole new chapter in Moro weapons.

A. G. Maisey · 30th March 2016, 04:21 AM

Ron, for an online dictionary of Malay, you might find Wilkinson a bit more useful:-

https://archive.org/stream/aeg2034.0...ge/n5/mode/2up

but I can't find 'lanteh' in either Wilkinson or Cowie.

I'm sorry, but I cannot discuss these keris-like objects, as I know nothing about them. It was the strange language and seemingly garbled terminology that caught my eye, and I wondered where Amuk had sourced it from.

Unless he sees fit to answer, I guess we'll be wondering forever.

Detlef

No, Amuk is not Sundanese, but he did live in West Jawa from, I think, about 2003. Not quite sure where he is at the moment, but probably still in Indonesia.

He is actually a very multi-talented man.

30th March 2016, 04:21 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,988	Ron, for an online dictionary of Malay, you might find Wilkinson a bit more useful:- https://archive.org/stream/aeg2034.0...ge/n5/mode/2up but I can't find 'lanteh' in either Wilkinson or Cowie. I'm sorry, but I cannot discuss these keris-like objects, as I know nothing about them. It was the strange language and seemingly garbled terminology that caught my eye, and I wondered where Amuk had sourced it from. Unless he sees fit to answer, I guess we'll be wondering forever. Detlef No, Amuk is not Sundanese, but he did live in West Jawa from, I think, about 2003. Not quite sure where he is at the moment, but probably still in Indonesia. He is actually a very multi-talented man. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 30th March 2016 at 04:31 AM.

30th March 2016, 12:09 AM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Alan, it was my assumption that it meant wavy in Malay based on a book that was written by Andson Cowie in 1893, an Englishman that resided in Borneo at that time ("English Sulu Malay Vocabulary"). I stand corrected. what led me to that conclusion was, the kalis, or kris were divided into two groups according to this book: either it's wavy (kalis lanteh), or straight (kalis tu'lid). there's no mention of semi-wavy. in Cato's book, he called the semi wavy blades as Kalis Talu-seko. sounds too much like the description on kalis no. 2 (kalis teloe sekoe, "three wave kris") which, by having three waves would indeed be a half wave/half straight. what about a five wave blade with a straight tip? would that still be a talu-seko, or is it now called a lima seko? so my assumption is it's included in the wavy category. furthermore, the categories were subdivided into different types. for me, that brought up a whole new dimension because now what we might think as a Maranao blade based on its katik could actually be a type of kalis or kris mentioned by this book, as oppose to what Cato assumed. another thing that got me interested with Amuk's classification (whether it was copied or not) is each kris has a description, similar to the way it was described in this book. whether it's confusing or not, there must be a reason why it was called that way. i understand the spelling is confusing, but it might have been spelled phonetically by a colonialist. regardless, i believe it was called that way for a reason. I have already given the nomenclature of the different types of wavy kalis. as far as the kalis tu'lid or straight blade kalis, it was subdivided into these variations: kalis tu'lid samsil kalis tu'lid bunga bung loi kalis tu'lid balangkas kalis tu'lid ka-kolang-an kalis tu'lid dasag kalis tu'lid dapau kalis tu'lid panas kalis tu'lid sabli then we have the barung that was subdivided further into six different types: tunggal kamas laipan binlihan angkun (i believe this type is the one that has the 'chinese' chopmark on the blade) to as far as budiak, it was subdivided into 12 different types which i'm not gonna get into. regarding the term "lanti", it is indeed Bahasa Sug, albeit this particular term is "archaic" as explained to me by a Tausug friend of mine. David, you said: Why saying "Kalis Naga Galap Lima Sikoe" should be any more correct than simply saying "Kris with Snake-like Five-Wave Blade" is beyond me in this case that's no more different than someone is saying "I'm carrying a Springfield Armory XD Mod 2 sub-compact 9mm pistol" and i don't think that's what it tried to convey. my thinking would be like "Kalis Naga Galap, lima sekoe" (comma included), which would now translate to "Kalis Snake-like, five waves variation" now, we can go either way. put this aside because it's confusing, and cato's words are gold, or look at it as a whole new chapter in Moro weapons.