18th Centuary Ottoman Kard.

mariusgmioc · 29th March 2016, 09:40 PM

Congratulations for this beautiful piece!

The blade appears to be pattern welded. If this would be the case then it would be most likely Turkey, not Balkans.

Te grip might be green onyx, which is found in central Anatolia, but is hard to say only from the photos.

Miguel · 30th March 2016, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Congratulations for this beautiful piece!

The blade appears to be pattern welded. If this would be the case then it would be most likely Turkey, not Balkans.

The grip might be green onyx, which is found in central Anatolia, but is hard to say only from the photos.

Thank you for your comments. I am not sure of the blade pattern it looks like dark wootz to me but not being very knowledgeable on blade patterns I don't really know.
The handle is green jade.
Kind regards
Migue

Battara · 30th March 2016, 08:23 PM

Is is a picture of one type of pattern weld:

Battara · 30th March 2016, 08:24 PM

Here is one form of wootz:

Battara · 30th March 2016, 08:25 PM

After some polishing and etching, I think you will find Turkish wootz (which is low contrast) in your blade.

Miguel · 31st March 2016, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

After some polishing and etching, I think you will find Turkish wootz (which is low contrast) in your blade.

Thank you Battara for the examples of pattern welded and wootz blades and comments I am much obliged to you.
Regards
Miguel

mariusgmioc · 31st March 2016, 08:31 PM

Restauration of antique oriental Damascus / Wootz blades

1. always wear protective vinyl gloves
2. clean the blade thoroughly with White Spirit
(3.) if the surface is rusty, remove all rust with Picreator’s Renaissance Metal De-Corroder, by either completely immersing the blade in the liquid or applying the liquid locally where needed
(4.) if the surface is badly pitted, polish the surface with sandpaper up to grit 2000-5000 (be careful that polishing is removing material from the blade, thus, it is an invasive procedure and should be applied with restraint; wootz is highly susceptible to pitting but slight pitting does not affect the end result too badly)
5. clean thoroughly the blade with White Spirit
6. etch the blade with Nital (solution of nitric acid 3-5% in alcohol) or with ferric chloride (20%)
6.1. protect the areas that do not need to be etched with polyethylene foil (cling film) and/or with Renaissance Wax
6.2. immerse the blade in the etchant solution, or apply the solution with cotton swabs, in quick moves in order to distribute the etchant evenly over the whole surface
6.3. the time for etchant to work should be very short, around 3-7 seconds, depending on the quality of the steel and the quality of the etchant (longer times tend to cause a golden oxidation and can completely mask the watering patterns of the Wootz)
6.4. remove all the etchant by flushing it generously with running water (some suggest to neutralize the etchant by using water with baking soda but I did not try it)
6.5. dry thoroughly the blade with soft, absorbent tissue, and if necessary use a hot air blower (but make sure the air is not too hot since differential dilatation of the components of the weapon can cause major damage)
(6.6.) wipe very gently the blade with cotton swabs and Picreator’s Pre-Lim polishing paste (I use this to remove the golden oxidation that appears occasionally)
6.7. clean the blade thoroughly with White Spirit
(6.8.) repeat steps 6.2-6.7 two or three times
7. protect the whole blade with Picreator’s Renaissance Wax for long term conservation

Observations:
a. The quality of the end result depends mainly on
the quality of the Wootz
the heat treatment of the blade
the quality of the etchant.
b. I had situations where I got very different results, varying from a very high contrast, dark pattern similar to Kara Taban, to low contrast silvery-grey watering pattern over the length of the very same blade. I assume this was caused by the different heat treatment the blade was exposed to.

Any suggestions or comments that would help improve this technique would be welcomed.

mariusgmioc · 31st March 2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

After some polishing and etching, I think you will find Turkish wootz (which is low contrast) in your blade.

Hello Battara,
I am very interested to learn more about Turkish wootz as I was under the impression that all Turkish wootz blades were actually made in Persia and only finished & mounted in Turkey.

Would the wootz of the Biçak in the photos attached be Turkish wootz?

How do you etch wootz blades?

Battara · 1st April 2016, 04:15 AM

There was great trade of Persian wootz into Turkey and even into India. Turkish wootz is low contrast, while Persian wootz is known for being a high contrast wootz like what is in this picture. The bichak you have pictured is a lower contrast Turkish wootz.

Rsword and CharlesS can tell you even more about these (as well as Indian) types of wootz.

29th March 2016, 09:40 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Beautiful piece Congratulations for this beautiful piece! The blade appears to be pattern welded. If this would be the case then it would be most likely Turkey, not Balkans. Te grip might be green onyx, which is found in central Anatolia, but is hard to say only from the photos.

30th March 2016, 08:23 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Is is a picture of one type of pattern weld: Attached Images

30th March 2016, 08:24 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Here is one form of wootz: Attached Images

1st April 2016, 04:15 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	There was great trade of Persian wootz into Turkey and even into India. Turkish wootz is low contrast, while Persian wootz is known for being a high contrast wootz like what is in this picture. The bichak you have pictured is a lower contrast Turkish wootz. Rsword and CharlesS can tell you even more about these (as well as Indian) types of wootz. Attached Images

30th March 2016, 08:25 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	After some polishing and etching, I think you will find Turkish wootz (which is low contrast) in your blade.

31st March 2016, 08:31 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Restauration of antique oriental Damascus / Wootz blades 1. always wear protective vinyl gloves 2. clean the blade thoroughly with White Spirit (3.) if the surface is rusty, remove all rust with Picreator’s Renaissance Metal De-Corroder, by either completely immersing the blade in the liquid or applying the liquid locally where needed (4.) if the surface is badly pitted, polish the surface with sandpaper up to grit 2000-5000 (be careful that polishing is removing material from the blade, thus, it is an invasive procedure and should be applied with restraint; wootz is highly susceptible to pitting but slight pitting does not affect the end result too badly) 5. clean thoroughly the blade with White Spirit 6. etch the blade with Nital (solution of nitric acid 3-5% in alcohol) or with ferric chloride (20%) 6.1. protect the areas that do not need to be etched with polyethylene foil (cling film) and/or with Renaissance Wax 6.2. immerse the blade in the etchant solution, or apply the solution with cotton swabs, in quick moves in order to distribute the etchant evenly over the whole surface 6.3. the time for etchant to work should be very short, around 3-7 seconds, depending on the quality of the steel and the quality of the etchant (longer times tend to cause a golden oxidation and can completely mask the watering patterns of the Wootz) 6.4. remove all the etchant by flushing it generously with running water (some suggest to neutralize the etchant by using water with baking soda but I did not try it) 6.5. dry thoroughly the blade with soft, absorbent tissue, and if necessary use a hot air blower (but make sure the air is not too hot since differential dilatation of the components of the weapon can cause major damage) (6.6.) wipe very gently the blade with cotton swabs and Picreator’s Pre-Lim polishing paste (I use this to remove the golden oxidation that appears occasionally) 6.7. clean the blade thoroughly with White Spirit (6.8.) repeat steps 6.2-6.7 two or three times 7. protect the whole blade with Picreator’s Renaissance Wax for long term conservation Observations: a. The quality of the end result depends mainly on the quality of the Wootz the heat treatment of the blade the quality of the etchant. b. I had situations where I got very different results, varying from a very high contrast, dark pattern similar to Kara Taban, to low contrast silvery-grey watering pattern over the length of the very same blade. I assume this was caused by the different heat treatment the blade was exposed to. Any suggestions or comments that would help improve this technique would be welcomed.