English Sea Service Pistol?

corrado26 · 22nd March 2016, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello

Numerous lock have the screw securing the lock to the stock right spring frizzen, so that is not a feature to define the origin of the lock,

So please be so kind and show me other locks with a flat plate and a flat swanneck cock that have this situation of the battery spring.
regards
corrado26

Fernando K · 22nd March 2016, 03:15 PM

Fernando K

corrado26 · 22nd March 2016, 04:06 PM

Ok, thank you, I forgot the Spanish flintlocks, but the lock of the pistol is certainly not a Spanish one
Regards
corrado26

Fernando K · 22nd March 2016, 10:03 PM

Hello

If, of course, the lock is not Spanish. Only me just say that the flat shape of the plate, the hammer-shaped gooseneck, the bowl round. the auction of frizzen, and the front screw lock are numerous and do not serve to ensure the origin. Subi image of Spanish solamentre lock as an example

Affectionately. Fernando K

JamesKelly · 23rd March 2016, 12:53 AM

OK, to clarify. It is the outside dimensions of the BARREL that are about the same as my light dragoon pistol. Not the stock, not the hardware.
I noted this to confirm that, whatever is this pistol, it is NOT a cut down musket or carbine. At least, when I hold it in front of a Long Land and an India pattern Brown Bess it is clear that this pistol could not come out of that pattern wood, likewise the breech diameter of the musket is quite a bit larger..
The sideplate of the pistol in service is stamped 94, which corresponds to the 94 (not shown) stamped deeply into the wood, right side of grip. I might guess that this stood for 1794, much as 08 on a long dragoon pistol meant, I dare say, 1808. With quite a bit of imagination one might discern English proof marks near the breech. It was a kindness of someone to paint it black, as corrosion has taken its toll.
I have had the impression that the British used simpler, or older, patterns for the Sea Service. I suppose I got this from Battle Weapons of the American Revolution, George C. Neumann, ©1998. Specific examples that have features somewhat like my pistol are: page 34 (5) Circa 1750-1780, flat sea service lock . . . frizzen often squared; page 77 27.MM English Sea Service , . . the lock and furniture continued to follow early Queen Anne period styling . . . a rounded trigger guard front terminal. . .
You gentlemen have inspired me to do the homework I should have earlier. I really don't know much about English Sea Service firearms. I would be thankful if someone would point me to an appropriate reference book other than Neumann.

NeilUK · 23rd March 2016, 05:23 PM

Hi James,
If you can find it you could try:
R.Brooker, British Military Pistols 1603-1888, pub.1978 by American Soc. of Arms Collectors; or
D.W.Bailey, Small Arms of the British Forces in America 1664-1815, pub. 2009 by Mowbray (in USA)

Both of these have info on the pistols you want, incl. Sea Service.

Hope this helps,
Neil

Tony PP · 23rd March 2016, 11:03 PM

It would be interesting to see the inside of the lock. From the pictures the trigger screw can be seen but not any sign of a sear spring screw. Not an English lock type i have ever seen. Can you also show what you think might be some proof marks ?

You said it could not be a cut down because the barrel of the Brown Bess was larger. That's assuming it was a military cut down but sporting rifle were changed at times. I had in the past a cut down rifle that was made into a pistol of a similar shape that had been used in the British penal system. In the early 18 hundreds the prisons were busy and not well funded so any weapon was made use of.

Anyway, Its old ,it's yours and a bit of interesting history. Have Fun

22nd March 2016, 03:15 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Lock Fernando K Attached Images

23rd March 2016, 12:53 AM	#5
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	OK, to clarify. It is the outside dimensions of the BARREL that are about the same as my light dragoon pistol. Not the stock, not the hardware. I noted this to confirm that, whatever is this pistol, it is NOT a cut down musket or carbine. At least, when I hold it in front of a Long Land and an India pattern Brown Bess it is clear that this pistol could not come out of that pattern wood, likewise the breech diameter of the musket is quite a bit larger.. The sideplate of the pistol in service is stamped 94, which corresponds to the 94 (not shown) stamped deeply into the wood, right side of grip. I might guess that this stood for 1794, much as 08 on a long dragoon pistol meant, I dare say, 1808. With quite a bit of imagination one might discern English proof marks near the breech. It was a kindness of someone to paint it black, as corrosion has taken its toll. I have had the impression that the British used simpler, or older, patterns for the Sea Service. I suppose I got this from Battle Weapons of the American Revolution, George C. Neumann, ©1998. Specific examples that have features somewhat like my pistol are: page 34 (5) Circa 1750-1780, flat sea service lock . . . frizzen often squared; page 77 27.MM English Sea Service , . . the lock and furniture continued to follow early Queen Anne period styling . . . a rounded trigger guard front terminal. . . You gentlemen have inspired me to do the homework I should have earlier. I really don't know much about English Sea Service firearms. I would be thankful if someone would point me to an appropriate reference book other than Neumann. Attached Images

23rd March 2016, 11:03 PM	#7
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	Sea Service ? It would be interesting to see the inside of the lock. From the pictures the trigger screw can be seen but not any sign of a sear spring screw. Not an English lock type i have ever seen. Can you also show what you think might be some proof marks ? You said it could not be a cut down because the barrel of the Brown Bess was larger. That's assuming it was a military cut down but sporting rifle were changed at times. I had in the past a cut down rifle that was made into a pistol of a similar shape that had been used in the British penal system. In the early 18 hundreds the prisons were busy and not well funded so any weapon was made use of. Anyway, Its old ,it's yours and a bit of interesting history. Have Fun

22nd March 2016, 04:06 PM	#3
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,231	Ok, thank you, I forgot the Spanish flintlocks, but the lock of the pistol is certainly not a Spanish one Regards corrado26

22nd March 2016, 10:03 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hello If, of course, the lock is not Spanish. Only me just say that the flat shape of the plate, the hammer-shaped gooseneck, the bowl round. the auction of frizzen, and the front screw lock are numerous and do not serve to ensure the origin. Subi image of Spanish solamentre lock as an example Affectionately. Fernando K

23rd March 2016, 05:23 PM	#6
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 126	Hi James, If you can find it you could try: R.Brooker, British Military Pistols 1603-1888, pub.1978 by American Soc. of Arms Collectors; or D.W.Bailey, Small Arms of the British Forces in America 1664-1815, pub. 2009 by Mowbray (in USA) Both of these have info on the pistols you want, incl. Sea Service. Hope this helps, Neil