When in India "died" wootz?

Rashka Vatnik · 25th February 2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Ariel, thank you very much for the message from Kirill Rivkin. It is very interesting. Kirill has sent you a photo of the sword from the Hermitage? Or is he simply expressed his opinion?

Kirill Rivkin is right!

mahratt · 25th February 2016, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashka Vatnik

Kirill Rivkin is right!

Please forgive me. You might quote fragments of works Anosov, which confirm the words of Kirill Rivkin. Thank you in advance.

estcrh · 25th February 2016, 03:59 PM

It is unfortunate that images of the blades that Anosov made are not available to see. Ann Feuerbach did get to see one of his blades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Feuerbach

FYI, I have held the blade that Anosov made for Faraday. It had a light sham-like pattern, however, the blade was overcleaned and that may be why the pattern was faint and only visable near the handle.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th February 2016, 05:39 PM

Salaams All,

This ladder decoration is the highest decorative form of any blade in this sphere...It is called Kirk Narduban. I have seen some interesting descriptions of such fine work several of which are signed Assad Allah e.g. from http://armsandantiques.com Quote"The blade is forged from deep and rich kirk narduban forged wootz with a hardened dark edge and overlaid with koftgari decoration signed Assaddulah, likely apocryphal, though the quality of the wootz and the forging is an indication of a highly skilled smith".Unquote.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Kirk...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

ariel · 25th February 2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

It is unfortunate that images of the blades that Anosov made are not available to see. Ann Feuerbach did get to see one of his blades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Feuerbach
FYI, I have held the blade that Anosov made for Faraday. It had a light sham-like pattern, however, the blade was overcleaned and that may be why the pattern was faint and only visable near the handle.

Yet another example of Sham-like pattern.
Any Tabans or Khorasans? :-)))

estcrh · 25th February 2016, 07:42 PM

Another reference about creating a specific pattern by manipulating the crucible steel blade blank during forging.

ariel · 25th February 2016, 10:37 PM

Estcrh:
Kirk and rose are not inherent wootz patterns. They are artificially- created distortions in the underlying wootz pattern. If the blade is not wootz ( or, at the very least, mechanical damaskus) no cuttings, grindings etc will help.
I am sure you know it, but I am always surprised and annoyed when some sources list different kinds of wootz as " Sham, Khorasan, Taban, and the most prized of all, - Kirk Narduban" :-)

25th February 2016, 05:39 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, This ladder decoration is the highest decorative form of any blade in this sphere...It is called Kirk Narduban. I have seen some interesting descriptions of such fine work several of which are signed Assad Allah e.g. from http://armsandantiques.com Quote"The blade is forged from deep and rich kirk narduban forged wootz with a hardened dark edge and overlaid with koftgari decoration signed Assaddulah, likely apocryphal, though the quality of the wootz and the forging is an indication of a highly skilled smith".Unquote. https://www.google.com/search?q=Kirk...sm=93&ie=UTF-8 Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 25th February 2016 at 05:50 PM.

25th February 2016, 07:42 PM	#6
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Another reference about creating a specific pattern by manipulating the crucible steel blade blank during forging. Attached Images Last edited by estcrh; 25th February 2016 at 08:18 PM.

25th February 2016, 10:37 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Estcrh: Kirk and rose are not inherent wootz patterns. They are artificially- created distortions in the underlying wootz pattern. If the blade is not wootz ( or, at the very least, mechanical damaskus) no cuttings, grindings etc will help. I am sure you know it, but I am always surprised and annoyed when some sources list different kinds of wootz as " Sham, Khorasan, Taban, and the most prized of all, - Kirk Narduban" :-)