Dragons, Naga and Bakunawa...

BSMStar · 21st January 2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

Here are some pictures of Naga sculptures from Thailand.

Great Pics Titus.... The naga has a horn too. Any connection here?

Titus Pullo · 21st January 2006, 08:31 PM

Probably, Thai arts are influence by the Balinese, also. They were contact between cultures in Southeast Asia, exchanging ideas and goods back in the ancient time. And, also, Siam kingdom once ruled part of the Indonesian Island when it was expanding its influence.

Emanuel · 22nd January 2006, 01:36 AM

Hello to all,

Looking at the beautiful hilts of the Sanduko swords, I can't help being reminded of the moro pira with their elongated hilts. Could the pira hilt -although functional in protecting the arm- be a stylized/simplified version of these Sanduko hilts and if so could they represent the same deity/dragon?

The pictures below are both from Spunjer's old posts, I apologize for not asking permission first and I hope he won't mind.

Regards,
Manolo

Titus Pullo · 22nd January 2006, 03:37 AM

I would imagine the one with the hilt made of wood would absorb the shock better on impact, and also cut down on the weight; thus, it makes it easier to use.

BSMStar · 22nd January 2006, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hello to all,

Looking at the beautiful hilts of the Sanduko swords, I can't help being reminded of the moro pira with their elongated hilts. Could the pira hilt -although functional in protecting the arm- be a stylized/simplified version of these Sanduko hilts and if so could they represent the same deity/dragon?

Regards,
Manolo

I look with sadness at the nose on my Sanduko, it use to look like the one in the above picture, but an inch or more has been broken off (before I got it).

I think being a pira may have to do more with the blade shape than just the hilt. With the design differences (and correct me if I am wrong) it would seem that the two sword blade and hilt shapes serve different purposes as weapons.

Not all Bakunawas have a long nose (some are very short - see Spunjer's avatar). It would mean that the Sanduko would alone have been the influence for the pira (a bit of a hard sale).... The Sanduko "horn" really serves no protective purpose (it seems to easily break). Mine was broken; I doubt it happened in combat (more like in rough handling).

It would be nice to know why the differences for the Bakunawas.

Spunjer · 22nd January 2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

The pictures below are both from Spunjer's old posts, I apologize for not asking permission first and I hope he won't mind.

nah, don't worry about it manolo, lol. post on, bro. i don't get too sensitive on petty stuff like that. if i didn't wanna share it, then i don't have any business posting it on the 'net.

BSMStar,
here's another tidbit:
i had a custom binangon made the last time i was in P.I. for the handle design, i requested the knob style. panday's reaction was, "oh, the chicken gizzard!" i asked, well isn't that suppose to be a stylized 'naga' head? he laughed and told me, "son, where did you ever got that stupid idea from?"

but then again, this is just one panday's opinion...

BSMStar · 25th January 2006, 01:23 AM

Well Spunjer, I guess one man's naga is another man's chicken gizzard.

BSMStar · 30th January 2006, 02:16 AM

Here is a link to some great sword pics that I have mentioned before, scroll down.... Love those dragons!!!

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum.../001969-2.html

Tim Simmons · 11th May 2006, 11:35 AM

This used to be in my paternal grandparents house. I always admired it as a little boy. It is really just an old tourist thing but quite striking.

A South American Godzilla. This beats working.

fearn · 11th May 2006, 03:58 PM

Hi BSMStar,

There are some studies out there about how fossils have been (allegedly) incorporated into ancient art, including some pictures on Greek vases, and legends of the bones of giants (Europe, N America, etc).

That said....how old do you think some of these pots are? There have been pics of dinosaurs around for almost a century now, and I'd be amazed if some forgers....excuse me, indigenous potters working for the faux-archeology/tourist trade...haven't been incorporating some of the images (say, from Charles Knight, or even godzilla) into the "ancient" pots that they sell here and there. Without a good provenance, it's probably better to be skeptical.

As for dragons being misidentified dinosaurs, I suspect they were, in some cases. Thing is, the term "dragon" encompasses a huge range of mythological critters that contain some sort of reptilian element. It can be informative to look at the real diversity in "dragons" especially in Medieval art. Aside from having a reptilian element, it's hard to say exactly what a dragon is: worm, snake, lizard, crocodile? Winged or wingless? Single or multiply-headed? Satan? a treasure guard? in the water, under the earth, flying, etc... you get the idea. It's more of a category than a species, I think.

F

22nd January 2006, 01:36 AM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello to all, Looking at the beautiful hilts of the Sanduko swords, I can't help being reminded of the moro pira with their elongated hilts. Could the pira hilt -although functional in protecting the arm- be a stylized/simplified version of these Sanduko hilts and if so could they represent the same deity/dragon? The pictures below are both from Spunjer's old posts, I apologize for not asking permission first and I hope he won't mind. Regards, Manolo Attached Images

30th January 2006, 02:16 AM	#8
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Great Link... Here is a link to some great sword pics that I have mentioned before, scroll down.... Love those dragons!!! http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum.../001969-2.html

11th May 2006, 11:35 AM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	This used to be in my paternal grandparents house. I always admired it as a little boy. It is really just an old tourist thing but quite striking. A South American Godzilla. This beats working. Attached Images

21st January 2006, 08:31 PM	#2
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Probably, Thai arts are influence by the Balinese, also. They were contact between cultures in Southeast Asia, exchanging ideas and goods back in the ancient time. And, also, Siam kingdom once ruled part of the Indonesian Island when it was expanding its influence.

22nd January 2006, 03:37 AM	#4
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	I would imagine the one with the hilt made of wood would absorb the shock better on impact, and also cut down on the weight; thus, it makes it easier to use.

25th January 2006, 01:23 AM	#7
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Well Spunjer, I guess one man's naga is another man's chicken gizzard.

11th May 2006, 03:58 PM	#10
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi BSMStar, There are some studies out there about how fossils have been (allegedly) incorporated into ancient art, including some pictures on Greek vases, and legends of the bones of giants (Europe, N America, etc). That said....how old do you think some of these pots are? There have been pics of dinosaurs around for almost a century now, and I'd be amazed if some forgers....excuse me, indigenous potters working for the faux-archeology/tourist trade...haven't been incorporating some of the images (say, from Charles Knight, or even godzilla) into the "ancient" pots that they sell here and there. Without a good provenance, it's probably better to be skeptical. As for dragons being misidentified dinosaurs, I suspect they were, in some cases. Thing is, the term "dragon" encompasses a huge range of mythological critters that contain some sort of reptilian element. It can be informative to look at the real diversity in "dragons" especially in Medieval art. Aside from having a reptilian element, it's hard to say exactly what a dragon is: worm, snake, lizard, crocodile? Winged or wingless? Single or multiply-headed? Satan? a treasure guard? in the water, under the earth, flying, etc... you get the idea. It's more of a category than a species, I think. F