Help needed identifying shamshir wootz blade

ariel · 23rd February 2016, 02:02 AM

Jim,
The problem is not only with Persian swors, but with any swords. The older they are, the rarer they are.
Weapons are perishable, and we have only one example of Seljuk swords ( in the Furussia collection), no Ottoman weapons prior to Mehmet II, virtually no Caucasian weapons prior to the end of the 18th century.

However, the book of Khorasani does contain several shamshirs of Safavid period signed by Assadullah Isfaghani.

# 73 ( p. 422) shows shamshir of Shah Abbas with Assadullah' s signature.
#74: the same
#75: the same
#76: the same
# 77: shah Abbas, signed by Kalbeali
# 78: the same
#79: shah Abbas/ Safi: signed by Assadullah

After that there are swords belonging to the later shahs , also signed with Assadulla's and Kalbeali's names. Those, of course, cannot be directly attributable to the original father/ son team, but on what grounds can we claim that ##73-79 are forgeries? They are openly mentioned in the book, with extensive photography, and all can see them and reach reasonable conclusions.

mahratt · 23rd February 2016, 10:38 AM

Guys, look at life realistically.

Unfortunately, the inscription is not the blade does not mean anything. Who prevents the early 19th century to make Shamshir and sign it - "1650"?

Let's talk about the items that are 100% provenance. Shamshir 17th century - diplomatic gifts, the kings of the property - they remained a couple dozen. Only they have the 100% provenance, only their date - 100% correct. They are different from what we mean by "Shamshir" geometry (Shamshir and those that we see in the book Dr. Manoucher Khorasani), and cartush with "Shah Abbas" and "Assadula" them not ....

Unfortunately, in many museums around the world data shamshir (and not only) are not correct ... From this error, that appear in the books. These errors are due to the fact that the books of the authors believe what is written in the museum.

For example, I come to the museum in a small town in Russia, and see the Persian shashmshir. Around him the label. On the label is written: "Russian saber 14th century.." I would have thought that such errors are only in Russia. But, I traveled a lot in Europe. And in museums in different cities also saw such errors (incorrect date)....

23rd February 2016, 02:02 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jim, The problem is not only with Persian swors, but with any swords. The older they are, the rarer they are. Weapons are perishable, and we have only one example of Seljuk swords ( in the Furussia collection), no Ottoman weapons prior to Mehmet II, virtually no Caucasian weapons prior to the end of the 18th century. However, the book of Khorasani does contain several shamshirs of Safavid period signed by Assadullah Isfaghani. # 73 ( p. 422) shows shamshir of Shah Abbas with Assadullah' s signature. #74: the same #75: the same #76: the same # 77: shah Abbas, signed by Kalbeali # 78: the same #79: shah Abbas/ Safi: signed by Assadullah After that there are swords belonging to the later shahs , also signed with Assadulla's and Kalbeali's names. Those, of course, cannot be directly attributable to the original father/ son team, but on what grounds can we claim that ##73-79 are forgeries? They are openly mentioned in the book, with extensive photography, and all can see them and reach reasonable conclusions. Last edited by ariel; 23rd February 2016 at 02:27 AM.

23rd February 2016, 10:38 AM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Guys, look at life realistically. Unfortunately, the inscription is not the blade does not mean anything. Who prevents the early 19th century to make Shamshir and sign it - "1650"? Let's talk about the items that are 100% provenance. Shamshir 17th century - diplomatic gifts, the kings of the property - they remained a couple dozen. Only they have the 100% provenance, only their date - 100% correct. They are different from what we mean by "Shamshir" geometry (Shamshir and those that we see in the book Dr. Manoucher Khorasani), and cartush with "Shah Abbas" and "Assadula" them not .... Unfortunately, in many museums around the world data shamshir (and not only) are not correct ... From this error, that appear in the books. These errors are due to the fact that the books of the authors believe what is written in the museum. For example, I come to the museum in a small town in Russia, and see the Persian shashmshir. Around him the label. On the label is written: "Russian saber 14th century.." I would have thought that such errors are only in Russia. But, I traveled a lot in Europe. And in museums in different cities also saw such errors (incorrect date)....