Help needed identifying shamshir wootz blade

Jens Nordlunde · 21st February 2016, 05:00 PM

In Islamic Armourers and Their Works by L.A.Mayer, Albert Kundig, Geneva, 1962, on page 78 he mentions a Zaman Isfahani.
"Zaman Isfahani, a pupil od Asad Allah, is known by at least two swords.
1. One made in 1836 in Kabul.
2. No date, but in the National Museum in Denmark.

estcrh · 21st February 2016, 05:13 PM

A PERSIAN QAJAR DYNASTY SHAMSHIR SWORD

With octagonal grips covered in black shagreen leather, steel pommel and guard of characteristic form. The massive blade of considerable curvature, forged of highly-contrasted black wootz steel and inaid at the forte, VICTORY FROM GOD AND CONQUEST NIGH, together with a baduh or magic square, and a polylobate cartouche containing the maker?s name, WORK OF ZAMAN ISFAHANI, a well-known smith said to have been a student of Assad Allah. In its velvet-covered wooden scabbard with black wootz suspension bands and pierced chape.Mid-18th century. Light wear. Overall length 101.4 cm.

ariel · 21st February 2016, 06:48 PM

Assadulla worked in the first half of the 17th century. I doubt that a sword made in 1836 could have been forged 100 years later by a direct pupil of Assadulla: a workshop initially belonging to one and maintaining its activity is more plausible.

The name of Zaman Isfaghani is pretty well known; likely he was famous even in his times. Thus, forging his signature much later was likely a burgeoning business, just like Assadulla's.

Either the pics of your blade are pretty poor, or the blade should be re-etched to reveal its true pattern.

Don't be upset about the handle: all organic materials have a limited life span, and, IMHO, most if not all 17-18 century swords have second or third handles.

And count your blessings: very nice shamshir!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd February 2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

In Islamic Armourers and Their Works by L.A.Mayer, Albert Kundig, Geneva, 1962, on page 78 he mentions a Zaman Isfahani.
"Zaman Isfahani, a pupil od Asad Allah, is known by at least two swords.
1. One made in 1836 in Kabul.
2. No date, but in the National Museum in Denmark.

Salaams Jens, LA Mayer states Quote"No contemporary chronicle mentions him as a living being and no details of historical value are known about his life or work".Unquote.

Indeed it does appear as very suspect and I have to conclude that there is a very strong likelihood that no such persons were ever involved in swordmaking and that the signatures were cleverly construed to give the illusion they were real people when they were no more than clever early marketing tools.

A full account of this very question of signatures on Shamshiir blades may be found at http://auctionsimperial.com/om-the-p...f-assad-allah/

I add later...from http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/shamshir/ Shamshir Quote."blades will often include one or more of the following inscriptions: the maker's name, the owner's name, a dedication to a ruler, quotations from the Koran and talismanic devices. The most celebrated swordsmith to create shamshirs, Assadullah (or: Asad Allah, Asad Ullah, Asadullah) of Isfahan, worked during the high renaissance of the Safavid Persian Empire in the time of Shah 'Abbas, who reigned between 1588 and 1629 A.D. Essentially no actual details of Assadullah's life are known. Inscriptions proclaiming blades to be his work are common and vary greatly in position of inscription placement, technique and style of execution, wording and calligraphy. Mayer notes inscribed dates associated with Assadullah range from 811 AH to 1808 AD and Elgood reports a wootz blade also inscribed as the work of Assadullah but dated 1921 A.D. - a span of about 500 years! Another famed swordsmith from this same time and place was Assadullah's son Kalb 'Ali (or: Quli Ali) for whom an equally variable and large number of inscriptions have also been documented. From the large numbers of blades so inscribed and from the variations in style, it becomes obvious that these blades cannot be solely the work of the named swordsmith or even of a particular workshop. Considering the variation in the inscribed dates and rulers it seems unlikely that these inscriptions were truly made to deceive contemporary buyers, hence these inscriptions may essentially have been intended as talismanic devices. Exactly which of the blades bearing the signatures of these and other celebrated smiths are actually the work of these smiths is likely now entirely unknowable. Rawson advises assessment of the worthiness of a blade to bear the mark of a great swordsmith, however this does not allow definite attribution of authorship. On the basis of a broad heavy blade bearing a bold, complex wootz pattern, Figel attributed a few of the swords in his collection to Assadullah, as inscribed, however the cataloger of his collection at the time of auction was understandably more cautious." Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

21st February 2016, 05:13 PM	#2
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	A PERSIAN QAJAR DYNASTY SHAMSHIR SWORD With octagonal grips covered in black shagreen leather, steel pommel and guard of characteristic form. The massive blade of considerable curvature, forged of highly-contrasted black wootz steel and inaid at the forte, VICTORY FROM GOD AND CONQUEST NIGH, together with a baduh or magic square, and a polylobate cartouche containing the maker?s name, WORK OF ZAMAN ISFAHANI, a well-known smith said to have been a student of Assad Allah. In its velvet-covered wooden scabbard with black wootz suspension bands and pierced chape.Mid-18th century. Light wear. Overall length 101.4 cm. Attached Images

21st February 2016, 05:00 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	In Islamic Armourers and Their Works by L.A.Mayer, Albert Kundig, Geneva, 1962, on page 78 he mentions a Zaman Isfahani. "Zaman Isfahani, a pupil od Asad Allah, is known by at least two swords. 1. One made in 1836 in Kabul. 2. No date, but in the National Museum in Denmark.

21st February 2016, 06:48 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Assadulla worked in the first half of the 17th century. I doubt that a sword made in 1836 could have been forged 100 years later by a direct pupil of Assadulla: a workshop initially belonging to one and maintaining its activity is more plausible. The name of Zaman Isfaghani is pretty well known; likely he was famous even in his times. Thus, forging his signature much later was likely a burgeoning business, just like Assadulla's. Either the pics of your blade are pretty poor, or the blade should be re-etched to reveal its true pattern. Don't be upset about the handle: all organic materials have a limited life span, and, IMHO, most if not all 17-18 century swords have second or third handles. And count your blessings: very nice shamshir!