Long yatagan

Emanuel · 17th February 2016, 02:18 PM

Eric,

I recall that some of the zeibek pictures you added to your Pinterest thread had captions like "western man in zeibek costume with harem woman" or something like that. The photos by Pascal Sebah and his sons for example, they had a studio in Istanbul and produced some of the Zeibek postcards from 1857. Actually a lot of these shots come from Pascal's "Les Costumes Populaires de la Turquie en 1873" published for the Vienna Expo 1873.

http://www.luminous-lint.com/app/con...ie_en_1873_01/

Sancar it makes sense to me that the simple T-pommels are later replacements of broken ears, however I am surprised that it became so standardized. These must have been produced in a very localized geographic area. As for the sizes of the blades, some of these are clearly early 19th, not late. Contemporary with other Balkan yataghan at a time when they were used, not just as a symbol.

Emanuel

estcrh · 19th February 2016, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Eric,

I recall that some of the zeibek pictures you added to your Pinterest thread had captions like "western man in zeibek costume with harem woman" or something like that. The photos by Pascal Sebah and his sons for example, they had a studio in Istanbul and produced some of the Zeibek postcards from 1857. Actually a lot of these shots come from Pascal's "Les Costumes Populaires de la Turquie en 1873" published for the Vienna Expo 1873.

http://www.luminous-lint.com/app/con...ie_en_1873_01/

Emanual, this may interest you, it is an essay on Zeybek postcards, mostly in Turkish.

Quote:

Kartpostallarda Zeybek ve Başıbozuk İmgesi
The Zeibek and Başıbozuk Image in the Postcads

Abstract
Zeybeks became an interest to the West, this was part of a general interest for the East. This article shows postcards of zeybeks who are sometimes named as başibozuk. These postcards mostly concentrate on the clothing of zeybeks and are often photographed in studios.
Keywords: Efe, zeybek, başibozuk, postcard, drawing, painting.

http://actaturcica.com/_media/2014-07/vi_ii_27.pdf

Emanuel · 21st February 2016, 12:05 AM

Thank you Eric.
The majority of these seem to be mid-late-19th century though.
We don't have much to go on for earlier accoutrements and weaponry.

estcrh · 21st February 2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Thank you Eric.
The majority of these seem to be mid-late-19th century though.
We don't have much to go on for earlier accoutrements and weaponry.

Emanuel, actually I was hoping that someone could translate what was written about these zeybek postcards, maybe there is some additional info as to their authenticity etc. As for early info, that seems to be rather scarce, there is some reference to a Zeybek revolt in 1829 but other than some short remarks it seems that they did not get much early written attention until they started to be used as an irregular armed suppliment to the Ottoman/Turkish military. Their involvement in certain regional military conflicts has been noted but as far as any detailed examination of their origins and weapons etc I have not seen that.

Another problem is that there are many different versions of their name, you have Zeybek, Zeibek, Ziebek, Zeybeck, Zeibeck, Ziebeck, in addition they have been lumped into the term "bashi bazouk" and while some Zeybek were bashi bazouk, there were many other groups and segments of Ottoman society who were also bashi bazouk. Unless a discussion of bashi bazouk specifically mentioned Zeybek or included an image or costume description it is impossible to know exactly who was being called a bashi bazouk.

Emanuel · 23rd February 2016, 12:38 AM

Eric, let's see if Sancar can assist

Hopefully there's something relevant in there. Agreed that an understanding of who was identified as Zeibek at different times and places is tricky.

17th February 2016, 02:18 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Eric, I recall that some of the zeibek pictures you added to your Pinterest thread had captions like "western man in zeibek costume with harem woman" or something like that. The photos by Pascal Sebah and his sons for example, they had a studio in Istanbul and produced some of the Zeibek postcards from 1857. Actually a lot of these shots come from Pascal's "Les Costumes Populaires de la Turquie en 1873" published for the Vienna Expo 1873. http://www.luminous-lint.com/app/con...ie_en_1873_01/ Sancar it makes sense to me that the simple T-pommels are later replacements of broken ears, however I am surprised that it became so standardized. These must have been produced in a very localized geographic area. As for the sizes of the blades, some of these are clearly early 19th, not late. Contemporary with other Balkan yataghan at a time when they were used, not just as a symbol. Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 17th February 2016 at 02:48 PM.

21st February 2016, 12:05 AM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thank you Eric. The majority of these seem to be mid-late-19th century though. We don't have much to go on for earlier accoutrements and weaponry.

23rd February 2016, 12:38 AM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Eric, let's see if Sancar can assist Hopefully there's something relevant in there. Agreed that an understanding of who was identified as Zeibek at different times and places is tricky.