Basket hilted swords

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim, outstanding note referring to the 'Border Reivers' of these northern regions! These are the unconventional groups that inhabited border regions and in essence did not claim allegiance nor favor to either English nor Scottish nationality. They were independent raiders whose raids and activity was not restricted to either side of these borders.
While Shotley swordsmiths had mostly removed to Birmingham it would not be surprising that local armourers would have been in place locally to keep the widely varied range of arms and armour serviceable.

It seems quite likely many variances in swords might derive from these contexts.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim, outstanding note referring to the 'Border Reivers' of these northern regions! These are the unconventional groups that inhabited border regions and in essence did not claim allegiance nor favor to either English nor Scottish nationality. They were independent raiders whose raids and activity was not restricted to either side of these borders.
While Shotley swordsmiths had mostly removed to Birmingham it would not be surprising that local armourers would have been in place locally to keep the widely varied range of arms and armour serviceable.

It seems quite likely many variances in swords might derive from these contexts.

Salaams Jim, Whilst they appear to be mainly involved in relieving people of their flocks of sheep and cattle I understand their favourite weapon was the spear or rather the lance. I suspect they were very capable of borrowing their opponents weaponry(permanently !) on their travels but wondered how much they used basket hilts...

I am also fascinated as to the international stepping stones route that the basket hilt sword took in arriving in Scotland... and I hope I can add something in a moment on that subject...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All ...In following up Sinclairs exploits in 1612 where he was ambushed on the way to Sweden. The Swedish(and Norwegian) sword situation may be worth consideration here as one of the regions that reflected basket hilts on to Scotland. Are we in fact looking at a Solingen basket sword below in the four sword group, second from the left?

Below;
1. The slightly fragmentary hilt from the Mary Rose for comparison...From the vessel that went down in 1545 !...in the Solent.
2. The battle scene at Kringen where Sinclair died.
3. A group of weapons including a Basket hilted backsword at a museum in Sweden.
4. Sinclairs Sword. Also an axe.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim, outstanding note referring to the 'Border Reivers' of these northern regions! These are the unconventional groups that inhabited border regions and in essence did not claim allegiance nor favor to either English nor Scottish nationality. They were independent raiders whose raids and activity was not restricted to either side of these borders.
While Shotley swordsmiths had mostly removed to Birmingham it would not be surprising that local armourers would have been in place locally to keep the widely varied range of arms and armour serviceable.

It seems quite likely many variances in swords might derive from these contexts.

Salaams Jim, I am tracking through various accounts of Border Reivers and note at; http://www.electricscotland.com/hist...r_reivers7.htm

Quote" Chains were drawn 4 or 5 times around the thighs of the horses which helped deflect spear thrusts. A scarf was wrapped around and around the neck for protection against getting one's throat cut. There was no leg armor but thigh-high thick leather riding boots worn with spurs. Sometimes small shields called bucklers were carried. In the early 1500s helmets were worn for protection of the upper part of the face and neck. In the 16th century, these were replaced with light, open helmets called burgonets -- the steill bonnets. These provided protection without a loss of vision. They were peaked on top with protective cheek plates and a flared rim to protect the neck. They were padded inside with leather.

Border Laws required that all men must appear at Muster Days with all arms and armor. The Borderer probably did not show the government on these days all the weapons he had. The lance or the lang spear was the most common weapon and was about 8 to 12 feet in length. Basket hilted broad swords were predominately used among the less wealthy at the end of the 16th century. The nobility wore rapiers and parrying daggers. Dirks, which were long narrow daggers, were carried by everyone, including the clergy.

Longbows and arrows were used even as late as 1580. The Scots also used the bow but not as effectively as the English and preferred a small light crossbow known as the latch.

Scots on foot carried 16 foot pikes. A Jeddart Staff was a 4 foot blade of steel and was slim, providing a long cutting edge with a spike at the bottom for piercing.

Pistols were carried by the Border men but with some trepidation since these weapons were tedious to load and reload and if not in good condition could result in losing a good hand. Also they were not particularly accurate unless at a very close range".Unquote.

From another source at http://wwwborderreiverstories-nebles...reivers_7.html I note;

Quote."Broad swords fitted with basket hilts to protect the hand were in general use and jealously guarded because of their cost by their owners. Often they were handed down from generation to generation. That the sword was of supreme importance can perhaps by gauged from the argument and feud that raged between the Scotts of Teviotdale, Scottish Borders and the Charltons of Hesleyside, Tynedale, Northumberland, England.

In 1596 Thomas Lord Scrope, English West March Warden, when writing to the English Privy Council of his sour relationship with his opposite number on the Scottish side, Sir Walter Scott of Buccleuch, Keeper of Liddesdale, complained that Scott even made an argument for his grandfather’s sword which had been stolen by the English Charlton’s of Hesleyside some years before.

I am led to believe that the present Lord and Lady Charlton are still in possession of this sword today, four hundred years later.

The dirk, a long narrow dagger, in general use, made up the store of the Border Reivers armoury".Unquote.
Below a selection of artwork showing Border Reivers and a map of their operational areas called Marches..separate Clan like regions for the different Reiver groupings. See also http://www.sorbie.net/border_reivers.htm

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All...Following on from the above post ~ The swords below seem to be associated with Border Reiver style...

Please see http://fallingangelslosthighways.blo...borderers.html from which I extract the pictures below and Quote"All three of the weapons illustrated are "backswords." that is to say that they are sharp on the forward (cutting) edge, and blunt on the back edge.

However in each case, the last four to six inches of the back edge are sharp, in order to provide a thrusting point.
The sword on the left of the picture, is one of the most important surviving British Basket hilts, and dates from the second quarter of the 16th century.

The large "Globe pommel" is both light in weight, and hollow, and the guard is asymmetrical being of a different form on the outside of the hand than the inside."Unquote.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Richard G]

Came across this the other day, (a bit grisly, I know)
Montrose was James Graham, a Scottish Royalist, (the Great Montrose) hung, drawn and quartered in Edinburgh in 1651, if I remember rightly. The sword was reputedley Montrose's
Regards
Richard
PS Will try to attach a pdf file. Page 69 describes the sword.

[fernando]

Cathey, you have a PM.

[Cathey]

Hi
If you are a seriously addicted to Basket Hilted swords then Volume 1 of The Baron of Earlshall's "The Scottish Basket Hilted Sword" is a must. Privately published, this limited print run is restricted to 200 total copies worldwide. last time I heard there was only 30 left. Volume 1, covers the years 1450-1600, contains three chapters consisting of 479 pages, 325 black & white plates, 11 colour plates & 39 figures (line drawings). At 12" X 8.5" and 1.5" spine width, it weighs slightly over 2.5 kilograms.

Personally, I have been waiting for this book for a long time, and now it has arrived I can’t wait for Volume 2 to be released. Rex would have preferred more consistency in the quality of the photographs, however the information contained in Volume 1 has exceeded my expectations. If you would like the details of how to purchase a copy send me a PM or look in Swap and Sell.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cathey]

Hi Guys, thought it was time to post another Basket hilt.


Date: Pattern 1828, manufacture date 1857
Nationality: British
Overall Length: 102 cm (40.2 inches) in scabbard, 98 cm (38.6 inches) sword only
Blade length: 82.2 cm (32.4 inches)
Blade widest point: 3.256 cm (1.3 inches)
Hilt widest point: 14.6 cm (5.7 inches)
Inside grip length: 10.3 cm (4.1 inches)
Marks, etc. Back-edge of blade, bottom of ricasso, is stamped with the serial number "8512". Etched onto ricasso, right is, "HENRY / WILKINSON / PALL MALL / LONDON"; in left ricasso is the Wilkinson "proof plug" (slightly damaged); etched into blade panel on left is the Argyll 'Boar's Head' over the motto of the 91st Regiment, "Ne Obliviscaris" over "PRINCESS / LOUISE'S / ARGYLL / & / SUTHERLAND / HIGHLANDERS"; the right blade panel is etched with the Sutherland 'Wild Cat' over the motto of the 93rd Regiment "Sans Peur"

Description
Scottish basket hilt in correct steel field scabbard. This sword belonged to a field officer in, "Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders". It is believed this was a family sword and used before the creation of this particular unit in 1881. The sword was manufactured by Henry Wilkinson, the serial numbered 8512 for 1857. It is also believed this sword was likely shipped back to Wilkinson for the subsequent new unit designation etching circa 1881. The blade has scattered dark oxidation and some scattered minor edge wear; hilt does not appear to have any fractures.

General Remarks
Princess Louise's Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders was formed in 1881 by combining the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) and the 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), both Regiments of Foot. The 91st and 93rd Regiments of Foot were first formed in 1759. The 93rd - originally known as the 1st Sutherland Fencibles - became the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders in 1800. These two regiments were merged during the Childers Reforms in 1881 - the 91st becoming the 1st Battalion, the 93rd becoming the 2nd Battalion, Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. It is very likely this sword was originally carried by a Field Officer in either the 91st or 93rd Regiment of Foot before the merger.

Research to date
The Wilkinson Proof docket says McNeill or Mr Hart (it has been suggested that they meant McNeill for Mr Hart) in which case the sword belonged to Hart. At some time after 1881 the sword has been re-designated/engraved with the regimental emblems etc. of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. By this time both McNeill and Hart had long retired. There is a Malcolm McNeil in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders at this time, perhaps a son or grandson of the original Malcolm McNeill linked to the sword.

The only regiment that had a McNeill and a Hart in it at the same time was the 78th Ross Shire Buffs. Both a Malcolm McNeill and a James Hart are in the Harts Army list for 1860. Wilkinson Sword purchase is dated 6 February 1858, Malcolm McNeil was gazetted Ensign in 18 December 1857 but Mr. (Ensign) James Hart was not gazetted until 10 September the following year (1858).

James Hart was promoted from the ranks, Sergeant-Major James Hart to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Ewing. Dated 10th September, 1858.

Both Men retired in 1861, James still an Ensign, however having seen considerable action Malcolm a Lieutenant with no record of serving in action found to date.

According to the 1860 Hart Army list “Ensign Hart served in the Persian war in 1857, including the night attack and battle of Kooshab, and bombardment of Mohumrah (medal and clasp). Served in Bengal with Havelock’s column from its first taking the field in 1857, including the actions of Futtehpore, Aoung, Pandoo Nuddee, Cawnpore, Onao, Buseerutgunge (1st and 2nd), Bithoor, and the several actions leading to and ending in the rleif of the Residency of Lucknow and subsequent defence; with Outram’s force at Alumbagh, including the repulse of the numerous attacks, and operations ending in the final capture of Lucklow; the Rohilcund campaign in 1858 and capture of Bareilly (Medal and Clasp).

I have found no record of a Hart in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

At this stage I am leaning towards the view that McNeill gifted the sword to James Hart, who latter re-gifted it to a son or grandson of Malcolm McNeill serving in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders


Cheers Cathey and Rex