ALGERIAN FLINTLOCK LONG GUN

stenoyab · 13th February 2016, 10:14 PM

Hi Rick,
In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch).

It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands.

Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours).

Jeff

estcrh · 14th February 2016, 02:19 AM

Rick, really great photos as usual, thanks.

Tony PP · 14th February 2016, 06:53 AM

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

stenoyab · 14th February 2016, 11:04 AM

Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt.

Hi Jeff.
WOW!! Thanks for posting your Algerian gun. Yes, that's what the butt caps typically look like. Your front sling ring is atteched exactly like mine. Is that wire or cord wrap on yours?

Now, your gun is super interesting, especially the LOCK !!! That lock is styled exactly like a late 17th century Portuguese lock. Very Cool !!!! Only the second one I've ever seen with this lock style. And the other one was also mounted on an Algerian gun. The Portuguese locks were styled somewhat like the Spanish miquelet locks, but mounted the mainsprings internally rather than externally on the lockplates. And the "dog" style saftey positioned in front of the hammer instead of behind the hammer as most European locks. I'm almost sure that's a Potuguese lock that was locally decorated. Very, very neat. Thanks for posting this one. Very jealous. Wish I owned it. LOL

An interesting side note about your lock: During the late 1800's and early 1900's there were a large quantity of crudely made copies of this lock that were made (in Belgium I think) for slae/trade to the natives in SOUTH Africa. Here's a pic of one that I own. Except for the crudeness, note the similarities. Took a bit of work for my gunsmith to get this thing to work right. LOL.

But your's looks like the real thing. That lock looks so good on your gun!!!
Thanks for the extra butt stock pics. It will help my gunsmith making a new one.

Rick.

stenoyab · 14th February 2016, 08:53 PM

Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while.

Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires.

Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me.
Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

rickystl · 15th February 2016, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while.

Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires.

Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me.
Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

Hi Jeff.
Yes, keep adding the penetrating oil every week and trying again. It would be great to see the inside of the lock. It may be a locally made copy (?) But from the outside, I think it may be a genuine Portuguese made lock, that was decorated locally. The inside of the lock will be the clue. Of course, the lock could have been used at a latter date. But is the lock is European made, it would still place your gun in an early period. Possibly pre-1800.
Rick.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

Hi Tony.
You are so right. The bridle is missing, and you can see where it originally resided. It looks like the lock was being used without the bridle. Which would be the likely reason for the stripped threads in the tumbler hole and hammer screw, with the excess stress put on both. Between myself and my gunsmith, we may have and/or can locate a bridle that can be fitted. Otherwise, a new one will have to be made.

Thanks for your comments.
Rick.

rickystl · 28th February 2016, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony PP

Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

Hello again. The photo on the RIGHT is the lock from the gun originally posted above. The lock on the LEFT is a Trade lock that was likely mounted to an Afghan Jazail. This lock was missing it's trigger bar/sear and came from my parts bin.

Well, as it turned out, the tumbler, bridle, top bridle screw, and hammer screw from the Trade lock will retro-fit almost perfectly into the Algerian lock. Just luck. So that will make the repairs on the Algerian lock much simpler and less expensive. But still some work to do on it. But it's nice to get a good break every once in a while. LOL

I'll post an update when the lock is done.

Rick.

Philip · 1st March 2016, 06:43 AM

Ricky,
Thanks for posting the picture of the reproduction Portuguese-style gun. So good that a gunsmith is interested in making a quality, working replica of an obscure European snaplock mechanism that the vast majority of enthusiasts aren't even aware of. I've seen some contemporary copies of early Scandinavian and Russian snaphaunces (a type so rudimentary that the pancover needs to be opened manually as on a matchlock), these are mind-blowing.

Do keep us in the loop when you get your lock and have finished mounting it up onto the gun you're building. Post some pics! Are you aware of the book ESPINGARDA FEITICEIRA / THE BEWITCHED GUN by Rainer Daehnhardt? About the introduction of snap matchlock firearms to the Far East by the Portuguese in the 16th cent., one chapter describes a replica of such a musket made by two Portuguese gunsmiths and presented a couple decades ago to the Japanese government as a goodwill gesture to commemorate the events of 1543.

rickystl · 14th February 2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Hi Rick,
In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch).

It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands.

Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours).

Jeff

Hi Jeff.
Thanks for your comments. You are so right about the extension on the butt stock made with different wood. That is basically what I plan on doing, then adding the brass plate. And maybe a thin piece of camel bone between the two wood pieces LOL

Here is a pic of the butt stock on my shooter showing the different wood. I've also seen bone used for this.
Rick.

14th February 2016, 11:04 AM	#4
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Heres the photos of mine, I also found photos of another near twin to yours with the same style lockplate sold via auction, it also had wire bound barrel and the extra wood butt. Attached Images

1st March 2016, 06:43 AM	#10
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	replica Ricky, Thanks for posting the picture of the reproduction Portuguese-style gun. So good that a gunsmith is interested in making a quality, working replica of an obscure European snaplock mechanism that the vast majority of enthusiasts aren't even aware of. I've seen some contemporary copies of early Scandinavian and Russian snaphaunces (a type so rudimentary that the pancover needs to be opened manually as on a matchlock), these are mind-blowing. Do keep us in the loop when you get your lock and have finished mounting it up onto the gun you're building. Post some pics! Are you aware of the book ESPINGARDA FEITICEIRA / THE BEWITCHED GUN by Rainer Daehnhardt? About the introduction of snap matchlock firearms to the Far East by the Portuguese in the 16th cent., one chapter describes a replica of such a musket made by two Portuguese gunsmiths and presented a couple decades ago to the Japanese government as a goodwill gesture to commemorate the events of 1543.

13th February 2016, 10:14 PM	#1
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Hi Rick, In the morning I will photograph one I have thats almost its twin, except it has a native made Flintlock lock (complete with a safety catch). It has almost identical wire barrel bands like yours, so I would not rush to replace them with brass as the wire may well be the correct bands. Also the butt doesn't have a brass end cap, instead it has a wood cap made in a different type of wood to the rest of the stock. Looking at yours I would suggest yours would also have had this extra wood end cap rather than brass (it appears someone had tried to glue and use dowels to re-affix it and it has then been lost on yours). Jeff

14th February 2016, 02:19 AM	#2
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Rick, really great photos as usual, thanks.

14th February 2016, 06:53 AM	#3
Tony PP Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 26	Hello, Looks like you have a bit of work to do but worth it I think. You wrote that the hammer screw held the hammer and tumbler , true but missing from that lock is the bridle that fits the other end of the tumbler. Held in place with screw where you have holes in the top of the lock plate and by another screw going through the trigger sear. Looks like somebody has shortened your sear screw when the bridle was lost/ broken. Have fun.

14th February 2016, 08:53 PM	#6
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while. Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires. Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me. Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.