Hilt of an old South-Indian sword

iskender · 10th February 2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Thank you very much for the pictures.
Could you, to the best of you oppinion, describe what a Yali is, and what it is supposed to do/mean? If possible also about the Makari.
As I think many on the forum are unknown to what they are. They have a wague idea - but that is all, and both are very important when it comes to the old Indian history.

dear jens under the title :KuLulza28 -sinhala/srilankan swords-there is a highly interessting tread inkluding a lot of work from Ibrahiim,Gavin and other members on that theme! the only thing that i dare to say is that yalis descended from cows and can fly. greetings iskender

Battara · 10th February 2016, 04:18 PM

I don't know much about the yali, but what I do know about the makara (again not much) is that it is a water based monster made up of different animal parts, like an elephant trunk (as mentioned earlier), sometimes tentacles, big mouth, etc. I have one on my Tibetan kartika (grigung in Tibetan).

I guess that does point to "makara" being from northern India.

Jens Nordlunde · 10th February 2016, 04:37 PM

Someone whom I know in India, once showed me a family sword with a hilt a bit like Ariel's, and mounted with an European, one edged, three fuller blade.
So David's suggestion sounds like a good one.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2016, 08:09 PM

Salaams All ~ SEE picture 2 of project hilt at #1 The Kirtimukha. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtimukha

Kirtimukha (Sanskrit kīrtimukha, mistakenly also kīrttimukha, a bahuvrihi compound translating to "glorious face") is the name of a swallowing fierce monster face with huge fangs, and gaping mouth, quite common in the iconography of Indian and Southeast Asian temple architecture. In Southeast Asia it is often referred to as Kala and in China it is known as T'ao t'ieh (Monster of Greed). Seen occasionally swallowing other supernatural traditional deities or inanimate objects imbibed with spiritual belief or superstition.

Placed at the rainguard an auspicious position to swallow your enemies. This face is sometimes assimilated to, or confused with, another sculptural element, the lion face (Simhamukha). However, in order to be a Kirtimukha it has to be engaged in swallowing, for the Kirtimukha is the figure of the "all consuming"
(Seen below in biggest picture and a small golden picture clearly fiercely munching something!)

Taking the Yali approach It is quite a sleek individual but commonly viewed as a pair making the Quillons a popular place for their appearance... Known for their superhuman strength; a good choice at the Quillons. Often described as a Leogriff..Half Lion / Half Griffin. (Seen below as a pair of standing statues.)

Considering the Makara see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology) noting that this creation has a main aim to disgorge onto the area other deities...and so far as I can deduce not on this project hilt...but ...at the top of the knuckleguard is that another Yali...or a Makara...about to splurge its load of oral delivered friends...?
(View below the pictures where the beast is disgorging at second largest picture and smallest...)

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 10th February 2016, 08:16 PM

Salaams All. With all due respect to Hindu and Budhist culture and beliefs;

It is encouraging to see at least one member turn to Forum Library to search for the mystical creature forms related to South East Asian Hindu and Budhist links. It is however a daunting task since the pool is 4,000 years deep and contains many twists. These deities (and even that word can be misconstrued) sometimes change and in a way can morph into something quite different depending on the stage of development that they change into...The Makara is perhaps more cunning being made up of parts of many beasts...It is however, easy to confuse with the Yali...and the Kurtimukha is often overlooked...On the subject at #1 it is the huge faced monster between the Quillons on the hilt on the rainguard~ at picture 2 of #1. Its task is to gobble up evil and may be construed as being on the rainguard to destroy its enemies i.e. the opponent. Chopped up and devoured so to speak. Like other figures it is therefor Talismanic.

An idea is to keep a hit list of the shape of each icon pictured invisibly in ones head... but this would only be a guide...since the concepts continually change ... One minute you could be looking at a crocodile headed monster with a peacock tail and the next a humanoid fronted, elephant snouted, dragon ! It is important on one level...for there are many...to know the task of each apperition...To swallow other demons? To emit other supporting deities? To not to do any of these..?

It is probably more important to consider what the warrior believes he is weilding.. In his hand a a fabulous hilted sword protected and supported by 4,000 years of tradition and religious empowerment, thus, in battle a very proud soldier indeed. The combination being a very strong cocktail of psychological empowerment likely to result in the opponent being mercilessly sliced up...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

10th February 2016, 08:09 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All ~ SEE picture 2 of project hilt at #1 The Kirtimukha. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtimukha Kirtimukha (Sanskrit kīrtimukha, mistakenly also kīrttimukha, a bahuvrihi compound translating to "glorious face") is the name of a swallowing fierce monster face with huge fangs, and gaping mouth, quite common in the iconography of Indian and Southeast Asian temple architecture. In Southeast Asia it is often referred to as Kala and in China it is known as T'ao t'ieh (Monster of Greed). Seen occasionally swallowing other supernatural traditional deities or inanimate objects imbibed with spiritual belief or superstition. Placed at the rainguard an auspicious position to swallow your enemies. This face is sometimes assimilated to, or confused with, another sculptural element, the lion face (Simhamukha). However, in order to be a Kirtimukha it has to be engaged in swallowing, for the Kirtimukha is the figure of the "all consuming" (Seen below in biggest picture and a small golden picture clearly fiercely munching something!) Taking the Yali approach It is quite a sleek individual but commonly viewed as a pair making the Quillons a popular place for their appearance... Known for their superhuman strength; a good choice at the Quillons. Often described as a Leogriff..Half Lion / Half Griffin. (Seen below as a pair of standing statues.) Considering the Makara see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology) noting that this creation has a main aim to disgorge onto the area other deities...and so far as I can deduce not on this project hilt...but ...at the top of the knuckleguard is that another Yali...or a Makara...about to splurge its load of oral delivered friends...? (View below the pictures where the beast is disgorging at second largest picture and smallest...) Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 11th February 2016 at 07:54 PM.

10th February 2016, 08:16 PM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	India; Talisman on Steroids. Salaams All. With all due respect to Hindu and Budhist culture and beliefs; It is encouraging to see at least one member turn to Forum Library to search for the mystical creature forms related to South East Asian Hindu and Budhist links. It is however a daunting task since the pool is 4,000 years deep and contains many twists. These deities (and even that word can be misconstrued) sometimes change and in a way can morph into something quite different depending on the stage of development that they change into...The Makara is perhaps more cunning being made up of parts of many beasts...It is however, easy to confuse with the Yali...and the Kurtimukha is often overlooked...On the subject at #1 it is the huge faced monster between the Quillons on the hilt on the rainguard~ at picture 2 of #1. Its task is to gobble up evil and may be construed as being on the rainguard to destroy its enemies i.e. the opponent. Chopped up and devoured so to speak. Like other figures it is therefor Talismanic. An idea is to keep a hit list of the shape of each icon pictured invisibly in ones head... but this would only be a guide...since the concepts continually change ... One minute you could be looking at a crocodile headed monster with a peacock tail and the next a humanoid fronted, elephant snouted, dragon ! It is important on one level...for there are many...to know the task of each apperition...To swallow other demons? To emit other supporting deities? To not to do any of these..? It is probably more important to consider what the warrior believes he is weilding.. In his hand a a fabulous hilted sword protected and supported by 4,000 years of tradition and religious empowerment, thus, in battle a very proud soldier indeed. The combination being a very strong cocktail of psychological empowerment likely to result in the opponent being mercilessly sliced up... Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 10th February 2016 at 09:48 PM.

10th February 2016, 04:18 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I don't know much about the yali, but what I do know about the makara (again not much) is that it is a water based monster made up of different animal parts, like an elephant trunk (as mentioned earlier), sometimes tentacles, big mouth, etc. I have one on my Tibetan kartika (grigung in Tibetan). I guess that does point to "makara" being from northern India.

10th February 2016, 04:37 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Someone whom I know in India, once showed me a family sword with a hilt a bit like Ariel's, and mounted with an European, one edged, three fuller blade. So David's suggestion sounds like a good one.