A GERMAN FIGHTING TWO HAND SWORD LATE 16 TH CENTURY

[cornelistromp]

the company of captain Dirck Jacobsz Rosecrans , Cornelis Ketel 1588
rijskmuseum Amsterdam.

same pommel type.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All, Eventually the big two handers fell out of favour...I note from Wikepedia SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_school_of_fencing QUOTE"The author Jean Daniel L'Ange writes in his book "Deutliche und gründliche Erklärung der adelichen und ritterlichen freyen Fecht-Kunst" from 1664 (another edition was published in 1708), that "a big sword is very dangerous in our times because it is more hard to carrying around with the clothing than a smaller thrusting sword which could easily be worn".

He also writes, that "it is possible to kill a man who is armed with a gun in a short range, when he stands close to you with the help of the rapier, because of the highly effective thrusting techniques, which will save your live rather than the slower cutting of a bigger sword or a sabre. You may even be able to kill him, before he can take his gun out of its halter, before he can make the first shot".

L'Ange also writes "you can hide your rapier well under your mantle and thus avoid any provocation in public. A long sword may cause problems and excite enemies". But L'Ange also pays tribute toward the Marksbrüder and says "their art is truly a knightly science, it must be preserved for the coming, yet unborn generations!". However, some civilian fencers still practised the German school instead of the rapier-fencing of the noble elite. The last known practitioner was Theodori Verolini in 1679, when he published his book Der Kůnstliche Fechter ("The Artful Fencer"), which based upon Joachim Meyers fechtbuch". UNQUOTE.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams All, Eventually the big two handers fell out of favour...I note from Wikepedia QUOTE"The author Jean Daniel L'Ange writes in his book "Deutliche und gründliche Erklärung der adelichen und ritterlichen freyen Fecht-Kunst" from 1664 (another edition was published in 1708), that "a big sword is very dangerous in our times because it is more hard to carrying around with the clothing than a smaller thrusting sword which could easily be worn".

He also writes, that "it is possible to kill a man who is armed with a gun in a short range, when he stands close to you with the help of the rapier, because of the highly effective thrusting techniques, which will save your live rather than the slower cutting of a bigger sword or a sabre. You may even be able to kill him, before he can take his gun out of its halter, before he can make the first shot".

L'Ange also writes "you can hide your rapier well under your mantle and thus avoid any provocation in public. A long sword may cause problems and excite enemies". But L'Ange also pays tribute toward the Marksbrüder and says "their art is truly a knightly science, it must be preserved for the coming, yet unborn generations!". However, some civilian fencers still practised the German school instead of the rapier-fencing of the noble elite. The last known practitioner was Theodori Verolini in 1679, when he published his book Der Kůnstliche Fechter ("The Artful Fencer"), which based upon Joachim Meyers fechtbuch". UNQUOTE.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

interesting, yes I believe the two-hand sword has gone sometime in the second quarter of the 17th century out of fashion

best,
jasper

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

interesting, yes I believe the two-hand sword is gone sometime in the second quarter of the 17th century out of fashion

best,
jasper

Salaams cornelistromp ...You illustrate Stunning artwork showing the weapon
Below; sketches and fighting technique illustration..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ulfberth]

Salaams Ibrahiim

Of course all is relative to the situation as place, timing and opponent, warfare or civilian use.
However I do like the following quote:

"never overlay thy selfe with a heavy weapon,
for nimblenesse of bodie, and nimblenesse of weapon are two chief helpes for thy advantage" - Joseph Swetnam,
The Schoole of the Noble and Worthy Science of Defence, 1617

kind regards

Ulfberth

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ulfberth

Salaams Ibrahiim

Of course all is relative to the situation as place, timing and opponent, warfare or civilian use.
However I do like the following quote:

"never overlay thy selfe with a heavy weapon,
for nimblenesse of bodie, and nimblenesse of weapon are two chief helpes for thy advantage" - Joseph Swetnam,
The Schoole of the Noble and Worthy Science of Defence, 1617

kind regards

Ulfberth

Salaams Ulfberth...Wise words indeed !!
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All, I note from Wikepedia, Quote" Late survivals in the modern period.

However, there are paintings from the middle of the 18th century that still show practitioners using long swords at the late fencing schools of the Marxbrüder and Federfechter. Historically, it cannot be verified if the techniques and practices of this training were anachronistic or an actual descendant of the original Liechtenauer tradition.

In 1726, Gottfired Rudolf Pommer auf Bugenhagen mentions in his publication "Sammlung von Merktwurdigkeiten" (collection of oddities) the use of long swords at the time in fencing schools of the Marxbrüder and Federfechter. Most fencers of the 18th century viewed long sword fencing as a curious thing and it was probably only taught in the few remaining fencing schools of the Marxbrüder and Federfechter and some stage fencing schools. The very last practitioners of long sword fencing may be slowly extinct with the dissolution of the Marxbrüder and Federfechter around the end of the 18th century and the early 19th century. The Swiss newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung mentioned on 16. April 1862 the death of an unnamed, 76-year-old (former) member of the Marksbrüder (who was a practitioner of fencing in his teenage years in the early 1800s, and was born 1786), which was possibly the very last living member until then''.Unquote.

Please also see https://fechtschule.wordpress.com/

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.