Old saber from a barn in northeastern Pennsylvania

[Lee]

I think these are the identical blade marks; unfortunately depth of field issues prevent my close-up photo from properly showing the top of the shield in the star over W mark, but it is pretty clear to the naked eye with the sword in hand. Thank you all again.

[CutlassCollector]

I came across a list of poincons for Chatellerault today while looking for something else.
I found the W with star above in the shield which relates to S. Wideman controller First Class from 1836 to 1843.
He was plain W without the star - second class - from 1829 to 1836.

The director between 1837 and 1839 was C.L.C Dupont de Pontcharra whose stamp was a P with star above in a circle. If that is the same as your P stamp it would date the blade nicely to a two year period.

Regards,

CC

[Jim McDougall]

Nicely done CC!!!! Thank you......adding to notes.

[M ELEY]

That was great work, CC! And Fernando for confirming that the mark existed from that article. Considering the date of manufacture, we can rule out War of 1812 and privateering.

What's left? A bringback sword that got broken/deteriorated over time, a sword used to whack crops, tobacco, corn stalks, etc. A Confederate imported sword captured by Lee's friend's ancestor??

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

That was great work, CC! And Fernando for confirming that the mark existed from that article. Considering the date of manufacture, we can rule out War of 1812 and privateering.

What's left? A bringback sword that got broken/deteriorated over time, a sword used to whack crops, tobacco, corn stalks, etc. A Confederate imported sword captured by Lee's friend's ancestor??

This was great identification work indeed! and the rest is for the historical detection part, which of course can only be very speculative. We have to consider that the sword itself played a very minimal role during the Civil War (or as I was often corrected while living in Tennessee...The War Between the States). While still a secondary arm for cavalry, and in degree in certain other units, they saw relatively little use with Union forces.

With Confederate forces, there was considerably less formality in many cases, and indeed much more presence of the sword. Many surplus and even current issue forms from England were brought into the South by many means, and I have seen news ads from Southern sources calling for swords of any kind to be brought to suppliers.

Of course these notes concerning the presence and use of the sword can be debated ad nauseum (and often are), the point is that a French naval sword brought back to Pennsylvania from the Civil War is highly unlikely in my view.

If the Pennsylvania provenance is sound, and has been in that context for many years (rather than a souvenier or collected item from more recent times) we might consider this arriving at any of the Northern ports of call via a French ship. As far as I recall from much younger years, one of the greatest and exciting charms of port cities are the pawn shops. These were always phenomenal for the curiosities left there by sailors of ships of all flags as they sought funds for their activities in port.
Items like these often became 'stakes' in the gambling of sailors ashore, or even such as in French occupied areas in Africa, where soldiers gambled away items of kit and issue.

From there, any number of things might have added to the condition of the weapon, including the adventures of young 'knights' playing with a sword found stashed away in a barn or garage....or use as a utility implement.

Imagining any or all of these possibilities only adds to the mystery and intrigue of these old weapons, as we well know!! right Mark!!
Total adventure!

[M ELEY]

Of course! Northern ports of call! That one slipped past my tired brain! Likewise, a pawned item lost to debts or gambling makes total sense.Totally sound argument on the disrespect for edged weapons during the War between the States. I know the mystery won't completely be solved, but the evidence at least closes some of the more whimsical theories (of which I heavily contributed!- ).

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Of course! Northern ports of call! That one slipped past my tired brain! Likewise, a pawned item lost to debts or gambling makes total sense.Totally sound argument on the disrespect for edged weapons during the War between the States. I know the mystery won't completely be solved, but the evidence at least closes some of the more whimsical theories (of which I heavily contributed!- ).

Mark, you know you and I are inherently somewhat whimsical characters!!
but that's what makes all this the adventure that it is!!
Sometimes the reality of the provenance of many of the weapons we study is less than the colorful scenes we imagine, but they are still very much history.....these pieces were there to see it. We gotta respect em for that!