Balinese Keris hilt ID

Jean · 18th January 2016, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I do not suggest for one moment that this hilt under discussion can be described as a royal figure, I used this term simply to demonstrate that one of Bali's foremost authorities on the art of his homeland is frequently unable to give a positive identification of the figures depicted in totogan hilts.

Hello Alan,
In his previous book "Keris Bali Bersejarah" Pande Wayan Suteja Neka does identify most of the "royal" figures depicted on togogan hilts (Prabu Ratmaja, Dewa Indra, etc.), however he just describes few of them as Prabu or Prabu kreasi baru (new creation). It is surprising that none of these figures is identified as Bayu although many of the figures which he calls Prabu Ratmaja are very similar to the ones attributed to Bayu. What a confusion!
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2016, 10:41 AM

Yes Jean, agreed:- confusion, but more than this, in fact a very deep lack of honesty and understanding at many levels.

The puputans changed many things.

You've read Wiener?

look at the confusion and contradictions that permeate her discussions with Balinese people.

The problem is perhaps that people who are outside a society imagine that the state within the society is as they imagine it to be from readings of times past. In fact, where Bali and Jawa are concerned, this is seldom the case.

In respect of the ID of hilts and other things in "Bali Bersejarah". Yes, this book was published under Pak Sutejo Neka's name, but exactly how much of it did he write? I've tried to work this out, and quite simply, I cannot.

mariusgmioc · 18th January 2016, 08:21 PM

Thank you all for your assistance!

After a further and thorough search I found the book "The Gods of War: Sacred Imagery and the Decoration of Arms and Armor" by Donald J. LaRocca, published by Metropolitan Museum. In the book, a very similar figure is described as Batara Bayu (God of Winds). The author also briefly describes the atributes that allow this positive ID.

The book is available for reading online and free downloading at the link below:

http://www.metmuseum.org/research/me...Arms_and_Armor

18th January 2016, 08:21 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Batara Bayu Thank you all for your assistance! After a further and thorough search I found the book "The Gods of War: Sacred Imagery and the Decoration of Arms and Armor" by Donald J. LaRocca, published by Metropolitan Museum. In the book, a very similar figure is described as Batara Bayu (God of Winds). The author also briefly describes the atributes that allow this positive ID. The book is available for reading online and free downloading at the link below: http://www.metmuseum.org/research/me...Arms_and_Armor

18th January 2016, 10:41 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes Jean, agreed:- confusion, but more than this, in fact a very deep lack of honesty and understanding at many levels. The puputans changed many things. You've read Wiener? look at the confusion and contradictions that permeate her discussions with Balinese people. The problem is perhaps that people who are outside a society imagine that the state within the society is as they imagine it to be from readings of times past. In fact, where Bali and Jawa are concerned, this is seldom the case. In respect of the ID of hilts and other things in "Bali Bersejarah". Yes, this book was published under Pak Sutejo Neka's name, but exactly how much of it did he write? I've tried to work this out, and quite simply, I cannot.