Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th January 2016, 04:45 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 9,207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
This is an example of kaskara probably from around WWI or post and most likely from Darfur. According to Briggs (1965, late XX, B, C) this same curious marking (Briggs terms it 'enigmatic' which we have used for it in recent years) was found on the blades of swords of several Tuareg chiefs in the Kaocen Revolt (1916-17).

In this conflict of Tuaregs vs. the colonial French and in the Air Mountains of Niger, these adherents of the Sanussiya Sufi rose against the French. These marks were found on the takoubas of Adembar, Rabidine and Raidera.

It is interesting to note that Ali Dinar, the last sultan of Darfur was in these times also involved with intrigues against colonial occupation , and he as well was associated with the Sanusiyya Sufi. He was killed by British forces .

While we do not yet know what this 'enigmatic' mark represents, and there have been many suggestions, it does seem quite possible it may have symbolic meaning in the Sanusiyya context.

Regardless it is compelling that this mark occurring on takouba far to the west in the Sahara, also has been found on numerous kaskara as seen here, in the same location on the blade. It is believed the mark has been around since 1870s, but provenanced blades with the mark that early are not known as far as I have known.

The grip covering is indeed monitor lizard of these Sudanese regions (Varanus Niloticus) and is found on many of these Nilotic arms.

The blade does seem quite likely to be a Solingen 'blank' which has been engraved with this curious yet distinct marking, which suggests it is of the 1916-17 period in probably Darfur regions, and quite possibly involved in these very historic events.
Wow Jim,

very well done! Great response.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2016, 05:07 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Wow Jim,

very well done! Great response.
Thank you Sajen!
It was fun being able to add this information which once again shows us how these weapons can indeed tell us stories about their past.
I am grateful to Cerjak for again sharing yet another intriguing sword we can learn from!
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2016, 07:51 PM   #3
Cerjak
Member
 
Cerjak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
Default

Jim and Ian
Many thanks forthis so well documented comments.
There is nothing more to discover ,everything had been say about this sword !
It is great !
Best


Jean-Luc
Cerjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2016, 10:20 PM   #4
Iain
Member
 
Iain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,717
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerjak
Jim and Ian
Many thanks forthis so well documented comments.
There is nothing more to discover ,everything had been say about this sword !
It is great !
Best


Jean-Luc
I would actually say there is quite a lot! While at face value this may seem a typical sword with a mark we have seen before, every example can hold clues to unravel a few of the mysteries that still block our understanding of kaskara and in particular this mark. For me it perhaps resembles a key of the style used by the Tuareg and I would guess other North African groups.

By the way did you have a chance to look at the area of the blade under the guard? I am really curious if there's a stamp or other mark there. Often there is!
Iain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2016, 12:46 AM   #5
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
Default

Iain is right, with these weapons the stories never stop unfolding. I have swords I've had for nearly 40 years or more and still learning on them!
Enjoy Jean Luc!!!
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th January 2016, 10:33 AM   #6
Cerjak
Member
 
Cerjak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain
I would actually say there is quite a lot! While at face value this may seem a typical sword with a mark we have seen before, every example can hold clues to unravel a few of the mysteries that still block our understanding of kaskara and in particular this mark. For me it perhaps resembles a key of the style used by the Tuareg and I would guess other North African groups.

By the way did you have a chance to look at the area of the blade under the guard? I am really curious if there's a stamp or other mark there. Often there is!
Hi IAN
Unfortunately I don't see any mark under the guard ,may be under the rust ?
Also this mark, first of all I thought it was a city gate looking in the old post I found a similar drawing.

best
Cerjak
Attached Images
  
Cerjak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2016, 03:54 PM   #7
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 465
Default

I believe the mark to be an abstract representation of an Ottoman tugra. It is oriented laterally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerjak
Hi IAN
Unfortunately I don't see any mark under the guard ,may be under the rust ?
Also this mark, first of all I thought it was a city gate looking in the old post I found a similar drawing.

best
Cerjak
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd September 2016, 07:50 AM   #8
DaveS
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Pinchot
I believe the mark to be an abstract representation of an Ottoman tugra. It is oriented laterally.
Oliver: I have the same kind of blade without a handle or long fuller but with the exact same mark. I seem to recall years ago seeing that mark in a reference book, and it was described as being British. Can't remember which book. I'll try to dig it up if i can............Dave.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.