The value of the additional visual sources for the study of historical weapons.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by ariel

Even worse: Firdawsi (10-11 cen) was the author of Shahname.
The miniature as per net references is either 14 or 17 century.

Well ... try this approach:
The Shahname (The Book of Kings) was written by Firdawsi between 977 and 1010.
Later in time a number of sumptuous illustrated copies were edited, many of them broken up in sheets being sold out there during the 20th century, some reaching a price over 9000 pounds.
So it seems plausible that the discussed illustration was painted by a miniaturist of the so called Persian school during the 14th century; being currently exhibited in the Louvre.
So much for the early version of the Muslim saber

[ariel]

Yup :-((((

[fernando]

I grew up in a country ambiance in that, the weapons carried by the Moors since they entered the Peninsula, included swords with recurved blades; scimitars, alfanges, you name it. Perhaps this was a legend based in that, these have a more romantic contents than straight bladed ones, i don't know.
Also i have a book about some aristrocat arms collection in that the author, a scholar, wrote:

In the battles that followed the Arabic invasion on 711 and resulted, in Northern Spain, in the uprising of Christian monarchies, Asturians and Lionese wielded swords of Roman tradition, in contrast with Persians and Arabs who exhibited the recurved models of their country of origin. The struggle for Reconquist being itensified and having submitted to Christian power the Persians and Arabs from the center and north of the Iberian Peninsula, one may not doubt that Muslim arts soon exercised certain spirit of influence in Western weaponry and, due to their influx that, in the Mossarab artistic, evoluted models od vertical swords which were supported as said, in the Roman model, suffering the effects - at least in the upper part of the pieces - the aptitude and elegance of the smiths of the Neo-christian workshops.From there, logicaly, the specimens that in Spain, Portugal and Fench midi appeared in the IX century and which development in European territory can not be denied.

Maybe the author is putting all eggs in the basket and mine is a naïve story, but i fekt like posting it anyhow.

.

[ariel]

Fernando,
Thanks for posting it. Every scrap of information is important in historical research: a story, a distant memory, an old drawing, a coin, a rusted remnant of an object. Yes, it is going to be difficult to dig through a pile of data of uncertain significance and dubious veracity, but it is orders of magnitude better than having no data at all.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by ariel

Fernando,
Thanks for posting it. Every scrap of information is important in historical research: a story, a distant memory, an old drawing, a coin, a rusted remnant of an object. Yes, it is going to be difficult to dig through a pile of data of uncertain significance and dubious veracity, but it is orders of magnitude better than having no data at all.

It is a typical mistake of a novice researcher. Only the VERIFIED sources of information have a value. It means no any "scrap" or the bent coins. Do not need to dig through a pile of garbage. Just using the verified information and nothing more. Good luck!

[fernando]

Mmm... i like yourt style, Mercenary .
You sure don't let novice nonsense stain your aura
Hence: Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by fernando

Mmm... i like yourt style, Mercenary .
You sure don't let novice nonsense stain your aura
Hence: Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant

I just wanted to help ariel not to make new mistakes. It needs to be very careful with the sources. There is a Russian proverb: "It is impossible to make a lollipop from .... feces".