Indian Swords with downward curving blades

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,

I have found something more, which I find interesting for your research.
In Four Centuries of Rajput Painting. Mewar, Marwar and Dhundhar. Skira 2009. Its from a very big private collection of Indian miniatures.
The author, Vicky Ducrot, and one of the owners og the collection, explains who the Rajputs are/were and from where they came, and on page 17 it says.

"In the twelfth century the Rajputs were defeated by the armies of Muslim invaders, first Arabs, later Turks and Afghans, and retreated from the Hindusthan plains, taking refuge in wilder regions: the deserts and steppes of Rajasthan, the jungles of Bundelkand (Central India), and the mountain ranges of northern Punjab."

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,

I have found something more, which I find interesting for your research.
In Four Centuries of Rajput Painting. Mewar, Marwar and Dhundhar. Skira 2009. Its from a very big private collection of Indian miniatures.
The author, Vicky Ducrot, and one of the owners og the collection, explains who the Rajputs are/were and from where they came, and on page 17 it says.

"In the twelfth century the Rajputs were defeated by the armies of Muslim invaders, first Arabs, later Turks and Afghans, and retreated from the Hindusthan plains, taking refuge in wilder regions: the deserts and steppes of Rajasthan, the jungles of Bundelkand (Central India), and the mountain ranges of northern Punjab."

Hi Jens,

Much obliged for the info. I am still struggling with the origin of the Coorgs but have discovered an interesting paragraph in my Oxford history of India of which I will let you know after I have compared it with other information on this subject. I received my copy of Elgoods Hindu Arms and and Ritual together with a copy of his study of the weapons in the Jaipur armoury today so am in for much enjoyable and interesting reading.
Kind regards
Miguel

[ariel]

Buddy, you are for a wild ride! :-)))

These books are indispensable sources of info for anybody interested in Indian weapons. Take a month-long vacation to read them and enjoy!

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,

Ariel is right, but maybe you wont need a month.
Somewhere I have something about the origin of the Corgs - I will have to think - althought I know that I will have a head ache afterwards :-).

This link should give you a late backgroung knowledge http://muralirvarma.blogspot.ch/2010...kka-veera.html

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Miguel,

Ariel is right, but maybe you wont need a month.
Somewhere I have something about the origin of the Corgs - I will have to think - althought I know that I will have a head ache afterwards :-).

This link should give you a late backgroung knowledge http://muralirvarma.blogspot.ch/2010...kka-veera.html

Hi Jens, My apologies for the delay of this reply but I have been pretty busy with the family, I tried on two occasions, yesterday, from my iPad and managed to send a short reply to ariel but the system would not send my reply to you and kept telling me that I was not logged in so after logging in twice and getting nowhere I left it until now so I could reply from my laptop.

Thank you very much for the link all info helps, I hope you can turn something up on the origin as I am struggling and like you am sure that I will also suffer a headache, probably more than one. There seems to be information about them from around the 18th C but not a lot in earlier times. I am looking, at the moment, at the period embracing the 1st to the 7th C to see if I can turn up a clue as to where the down curved swords originated. It has been confirmed that a thriving trade between the peninsular and Rome and the West was established by The 1st C ad so I am wondering if weapons of this type could have been introduced by this route which means investigating which countries were trading with the South at this time etc so an awful lot of work to be done just on this one area. There seems to be quite a lot of theories and hypotheses about the origin of the Coorgs but no actual proof but I am not giving up as I am finding it most interesting. Incidentally during my searching I have come across both Kora and Ayda Katti with Khandar hilts which may point to their use, in later times, by either the Rajput or the Marathas or both?
Best regards
Miguel

[ariel]

Miguel,

Downcurved sword were plentiful among the Central Asian nomads.
Rawson ( and then Pant and Elgood) show similar forms in India even B.C.
Adya Katti was supposed to reflect Arab influence from Omani immigrants.


Thus, it could have been purely indigenous form of Indian weaponry with some contribution from Northern invaders at different times. Figuring out what is what in each particular case might be impossible. Was, for example, Mughal Sosun Patta in any way related to the Indian one? Or was it a "copy" of the Ottoman Yataghan? Or a happy marriage of both?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Miguel,

Tod, James:Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan, vol. I-II.Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers, 2001 reprint.

In the first volume Tod writes about several, very early, Scytic invasions, and they seem to have been all over India.

Ariel is of course right. It may be impossible to prove anything - but it is worth a try :-).
It is always nice to winn, but should you lose you must remember, that you have learned a lot walking this stony path :-) - and learning is what it is all about. So which way it goes, you will always come out as a winner.

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by ariel

Miguel,

Downcurved sword were plentiful among the Central Asian nomads.
Rawson ( and then Pant and Elgood) show similar forms in India even B.C.
Adya Katti was supposed to reflect Arab influence from Omani immigrants.


Thus, it could have been purely indigenous form of Indian weaponry with some contribution from Northern invaders at different times. Figuring out what is what in each particular case might be impossible. Was, for example, Mughal Sosun Patta in any way related to the Indian one? Or was it a "copy" of the Ottoman Yataghan? Or a happy marriage of both?

Hi Ariel, Thanks for your reply. I think you are probably right and that it may be impossible, I had reached this conclusion myself but at the same time you never know and as I am enjoying learning things I never knew about the history of India I will keep searching for a while longer. Thank you for your tip re Arab influence which again I did not know. Learning all the time, I am really glad that I was able to join this forum.
Thanks again.
Miguel

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by ariel

Buddy, you are for a wild ride! :-)))

These books are indispensable sources of info for anybody interested in Indian weapons. Take a month-long vacation to read them and enjoy!

Thanks Ariel. I wish.