Mantras keris and empu

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Alam Shah, there are other keris cultures but since I have only a superficial knowledge of the societies that are home to these other belief systems, I tend to refrain from comment on them. My comments are most often only in respect of Javanese belief systems, and sometimes Balinese.

[Pusaka]

One teacher said to me what you know makes you unique, giving it away is giving away your uniqueness.

On the other hand however it is part of the oath many initiates take that they must impart their knowledge to three others before they die. In modern times think it might be harder to find someone to impart such knowledge to.

[Mick]

I am glad to see these posts appear. I do not remember all of the individual posts that have been written on this forum, but feel that this series of posts have brought forward, for the first time, some of the real difficulties in understanding the keris no matter in which area you are interested.

It is, by no means, just a matter of the workmanship of an individual item.

[Bob A]

A book, or let us say the written word - in deference to our current ability to transmit information - may have the ability to pass on knowledge (as opposed to "information") to some degree. Transmission of knowledge is far more complex a concept than can be encompassed by so basic a system.

"Hands on" permits a far more complete understanding, not capable of being rendered by words. Beyond that, there are levels of experience which can only be passed on situationally, where the necessary individuals and settings align. Nor is it always immediately apparent that something has been passed along.

However, a book can serve as a beacon of sorts, bringing awareness of certain concepts to the attention of persons who might be susceptible to cultivating a growth process.

Knowledge of a certain type is not necessarily "hidden"; it might require rather more time, effort, and opportunity to be brought into awareness than can easily be described, and may require particular personal characteristics be present in the potential recipient.

This is a general description of a state of affairs, but it would seem to apply to the present discussion.

[A. G. Maisey]

Bob, much of that which you have written is beyond dispute, however, in respect of all belief systems hidden knowledge does exist, "hidden knowledge" being that knowledge, interpretation or understanding that is only available to a limited number of people.

Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, the Hindu Faith, these are all belief systems, and they are all subject to the concept of "hidden knowledge".

In Jawa and Bali the knowledge that is attached to the keris is also part of a number of belief systems. Within the belief systems attached to the keris some knowledge is limited to certain people. In fact, in Bali until the present time, and in pre-Islamic Jawa, the select knowledge attached to the keris was/is structured into a separate caste, the Pande Caste, and the higher levels of this knowledge was/is only made available to certain persons within that caste.

I do agree that the printed word is limited in its ability to transmit knowledge, information, and most importantly, understanding. However, the Javanese approach to the publication of a published work of any type must be understood within the parameters set by the mores and standards of Javanese society.

[Bob A]

Thank you for your reply, Alan.

Of course, my post was sketchy and limited in scope. I did not mean to deny the actuality of a hidden stream of knowledge, though I'm interested to learn that it exists (existed?) in a caste-based system in Javanese society. In other societies of which I have limited awareness, such transmission is not so tightly restricted, at least not in that particular form.

[Seerp Visser]

Very interesting discussion about the mantra's and the "secrets"of the keris.

I like to react on some of the statements,

Pusaka
One teacher said to me what you know makes you unique, giving it away is giving away your uniqueness.

As teacher forging at the Academy of Arts in Antwerp Belgium (retired), i can understand what your teacher means, but my experience is different. Giving my know-how away, i think, made many other people more unique. I myself don't have the feeling that i lost anything of my own.

Here in Belgium we have another saying "When you learn a monkey climbing, it climbs over you". In fact, when i see the work what some of my students make these days, i admire their work and i think they surpassed me. This gives me a very satisfying feeling.

Especially for the forging of a keris, to my opinion, there is no problem to learn somebody where he asks for. The information you give can only be useful to somebody, on the moment he reaches the point of development where the given information can help him further on the way.
Somebody starting to learn the way a keris is forged, must be a quite good blacksmith anyway and still needs some years practice to come to the point where he is capable to forge his first "acceptable" keris.

Alam Shaka
You do not give information to people who do not have sufficient knowledge to understand what" you have given them. You do not give the key"

I think, every blacksmith trying to forge a keris will have to go a long way and i hope for him that he will find "The Key". To my opinion to find the key is something you only can do yourself, after a long way of stumbling.

I did not forge a keris myself, but i am studying the forging of a lot of five keris, forged by the empu Karja di Krama in 1904. The work was attended by Dr. Groneman who made an article about the work, what was published in 1910.
Dr. Groneman was a medicine and quite precise. He made an extensive description of the work. I could learn quite a lot from this work. Still i get the feeling that, after four years of study, i did not find "The key" yet.

Karja di Krama forged the five keris without writing down a note. For each keris he was working weeks. When we see the results, the five keris differ in the main dimensions only a few millimeters maximal. The thickness of the blades only differ tenth of millimeters.
To achieve such a result he must have been an excellent empu.

(I attached an image showing the five keris with the dimensions. I hope the image came over).

This brings me on the discussion of the mantra's and praying.
To obtain exact predefined results forging a keris, and especially to obtain a result with an obligatory pamor, after welding sometimes hundreds of layers, you will have to be very alert during the work.
One wrong maneuver and the work is lost (or a new pamor is invented). You will see the results only, at the end of the process. In case of a mistake a lot of material (in some cases very expensive meteorite material) is lost, as well as a large quantity of fuel and the cost for labor of at least three persons for weeks.

Not writing down the steps an empu makes during forging, i can understand that the empu will be praying and singing mantra's to keep fully concentrated.
This still besides his religion and the help of God he could obtain in this way.