Mantras keris and empu

Mick · 17th December 2015, 08:17 PM

This discussion is veering into one of the "mystical" properties of beliefs in regard to the keris.

There is a small number of people who profess that they have the ability to determine if a keris has been empowered. They don't look at the workmanship of a piece, but just handle it with the most important portion being the blade.

One of these people told me that an empowered blade will give a tingling feeling to his hands while a regular blade will not. This individual visited me before I left the country about 40 years ago, went through the 20 or so of the kerises that I had on hand and picked out about three or four as having power. I, obviously, don't profess to have this ability, so I didn't feel any difference between these kerises and the rest of the bunch. But this is one of the things that arise when you really study the subject of kerises.

There was a great deal of keris information that was never discussed by the local population as this material was "almost" considered sacred. In addition to this fact, the few real experts on this topic "even if you knew them and were friends" would guard their information fiercely. Trying to obtain information from them was like pulling their teeth. Unfortunately, these few people have since died and, because of this "in western opinion" character flaw their valuable information died with them.

A. G. Maisey · 17th December 2015, 08:58 PM

Thank you for your post Mick.

Your experience in the home of keris culture was at a time when the nature of the culture was changing forever. Probably the very last people in Jawa whose keris knowledge and experience spanned the period from pre-WWII through into the modern age left us during the 1990's.

Because there was a general perception amongst these people that the younger generations had lost their way, I believe most of them did not accept pupils or followers and so much of the knowledge, experience, belief of the older generations is now lost indeed.

At the present time I fear that history is repeating itself:- those people who truly do have some of the deeper keris knowledge are extremely reluctant to accept pupils or followers because they are unable to find people with both the interest in keris and the mind-set to permit those people to learn the deeper aspects of keris belief.

Perhaps all the knowledge and belief of previous generations is not yet lost, but I feel that it soon will be.

Hidden knowledge is not passed freely to everybody:- that is why we know it as hidden knowledge. Exactly the same thing applies with the hidden knowledge of any religion. The masses are permitted a limited understanding, only the initiates have the hidden doors opened for them. As the difficulty of comprehending the hidden knowledge increases, fewer and fewer people have access to that knowledge.

In the World of the Keris, the only way to have a door opened for you is to be accepted by somebody who holds the knowledge and who is prepared to teach you, and that person will never pass knowledge to you gratuitously, but only in response to the questions you ask, because those questions will indicate to the Teacher the existing knowledge and mindset of his pupil.

Pusaka · 17th December 2015, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

This discussion is veering into one of the "mystical" properties of beliefs in regard to the keris.

It started as a thread about the mystical properties ie mantra. That is a major aspect in keris too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

One of these people told me that an empowered blade will give a tingling feeling to his hands while a regular blade will not. This individual visited me before I left the country about 40 years ago, went through the 20 or so of the kerises that I had on hand and picked out about three or four as having power. I, obviously, don't profess to have this ability, so I didn't feel any difference between these kerises and the rest of the bunch. But this is one of the things that arise when you really study the subject of kerises.

One guru I knew believed the same, he would hold a keris blade between his thumb and index finger and feel for a vibration.

People would bring him keris occasionally but the thing is he was secretive and if someone had a live blade he would not tell them. I remember actually one occasion in which after the person had gone I overheard him say to one of his senior students "that blade was live, but I went going to tell him that"

Jean · 18th December 2015, 09:32 AM

My Solonese friend who is a high silat master was teached this ability to detect "empowered" blades. For this he would pass his hand along the blade close to it but without touching it and feel a vibration or rather tingling feeling as said by Mick. I tried it but it was not very successful probably by lack of relaxation and training (although I have dowser abilities which may help). An alternative technique which he uses is to hold a match and pass it along and close to the blade for transmitting the feeling to the hand. Try it yourself!

Regards

Pusaka · 18th December 2015, 10:35 AM

Nobody is born with the ability to feel the vibration in an empowered blade, you have to do a training technique In Silat its called rasa, the ability to feel with the heart. Just as the inner teachings of the keris are secret so are most of these training techniques also.

17th December 2015, 08:17 PM	#1
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	This discussion is veering into one of the "mystical" properties of beliefs in regard to the keris. There is a small number of people who profess that they have the ability to determine if a keris has been empowered. They don't look at the workmanship of a piece, but just handle it with the most important portion being the blade. One of these people told me that an empowered blade will give a tingling feeling to his hands while a regular blade will not. This individual visited me before I left the country about 40 years ago, went through the 20 or so of the kerises that I had on hand and picked out about three or four as having power. I, obviously, don't profess to have this ability, so I didn't feel any difference between these kerises and the rest of the bunch. But this is one of the things that arise when you really study the subject of kerises. There was a great deal of keris information that was never discussed by the local population as this material was "almost" considered sacred. In addition to this fact, the few real experts on this topic "even if you knew them and were friends" would guard their information fiercely. Trying to obtain information from them was like pulling their teeth. Unfortunately, these few people have since died and, because of this "in western opinion" character flaw their valuable information died with them.

17th December 2015, 08:58 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thank you for your post Mick. Your experience in the home of keris culture was at a time when the nature of the culture was changing forever. Probably the very last people in Jawa whose keris knowledge and experience spanned the period from pre-WWII through into the modern age left us during the 1990's. Because there was a general perception amongst these people that the younger generations had lost their way, I believe most of them did not accept pupils or followers and so much of the knowledge, experience, belief of the older generations is now lost indeed. At the present time I fear that history is repeating itself:- those people who truly do have some of the deeper keris knowledge are extremely reluctant to accept pupils or followers because they are unable to find people with both the interest in keris and the mind-set to permit those people to learn the deeper aspects of keris belief. Perhaps all the knowledge and belief of previous generations is not yet lost, but I feel that it soon will be. Hidden knowledge is not passed freely to everybody:- that is why we know it as hidden knowledge. Exactly the same thing applies with the hidden knowledge of any religion. The masses are permitted a limited understanding, only the initiates have the hidden doors opened for them. As the difficulty of comprehending the hidden knowledge increases, fewer and fewer people have access to that knowledge. In the World of the Keris, the only way to have a door opened for you is to be accepted by somebody who holds the knowledge and who is prepared to teach you, and that person will never pass knowledge to you gratuitously, but only in response to the questions you ask, because those questions will indicate to the Teacher the existing knowledge and mindset of his pupil.

18th December 2015, 09:32 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	My Solonese friend who is a high silat master was teached this ability to detect "empowered" blades. For this he would pass his hand along the blade close to it but without touching it and feel a vibration or rather tingling feeling as said by Mick. I tried it but it was not very successful probably by lack of relaxation and training (although I have dowser abilities which may help). An alternative technique which he uses is to hold a match and pass it along and close to the blade for transmitting the feeling to the hand. Try it yourself! Regards

18th December 2015, 10:35 AM	#5
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Nobody is born with the ability to feel the vibration in an empowered blade, you have to do a training technique In Silat its called rasa, the ability to feel with the heart. Just as the inner teachings of the keris are secret so are most of these training techniques also.