Recommended Exhibition & Book: The Sword - Form and Thought

[Iain]

Thanks for the in depth reply. I have to admit I wasn't being entirely serious when mentioning a consensus, but I had some of the initial reactions you mentioned. It all seemed a little overly complex, perhaps without a reason to be and assumed a level of technical design process that would perhaps be hard to support, without some sort of 'smoking gun'.

In any case I look forward to getting hold of the catalog and reading the paper in question. My interest is not primarily in European Medieval arms, but I have a fair bit of interest in the topic of the blade designs as much of what I collect does in fact have European blades from the 14th-18th centuries. Regardless, its great to see new ideas being proposed and its an intriguing theory.

How far back does the paper propose such a geometry based design process would have started?

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Iain

How far back does the paper propose such a geometry based design process would have started?

Coincident with the appearance of the +ULFBERHT+ inscribed blades; about 800 AD.

I think the geometry observations are still a hypothesis in development, but it appears that a fairly large number of swords are fitting the patterns. Remember that the swordsmiths were unlikely to have been working directly with the math, but from templates. As more collections are analyzed with this tool, I suspect confidence will grow (or wane if too many examples otherwise correct for the period do not conform).

(The +ULFBERH+T crucible steel hypothesis was under attack at the conference and we may see it falling from favor; similarly, some sword and hilt forms from central Europe may, in fact, be earlier than previously believed. A lot to digest and I greatly enjoyed the conference and exhibit!)

Thank you, J.G., Carl Koppeschaar's album is far more comprehensive than the set of photographs I had taken and lost. As I placed this in the discussion forums, I shall shall shy away from discussing detailed logistics about acquiring the book except that the rumor at the conference was that direct mail order purchase is apparently somewhat cumbersome as the museum is a unit of the city government and is limited by regulations beyond its control. But, if you have an interest in this area the book is definitely a worthwhile acquisition.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Lee

Coincident with the appearance of the +ULFBERHT+ inscribed blades; about 800 AD.

I think the geometry observations are still a hypothesis in development, but it appears that a fairly large number of swords are fitting the patterns. Remember that the swordsmiths were unlikely to have been working directly with the math, but from templates. As more collections are analyzed with this tool, I suspect confidence will grow (or wane if too many examples otherwise correct for the period do not conform).

(The +ULFBERH+T crucible steel hypothesis was under attack at the conference and we may see it falling from favor; similarly, some sword and hilt forms from central Europe may, in fact, be earlier than previously believed. A lot to digest and I greatly enjoyed the conference and exhibit!)

Thank you, J.G., Carl Koppeschaar's album is far more comprehensive than the set of photographs I had taken and lost. As I placed this in the discussion forums, I shall shall shy away from discussing detailed logistics about acquiring the book except that the rumor at the conference was that direct mail order purchase is apparently somewhat cumbersome as the museum is a unit of the city government and is limited by regulations beyond its control. But, if you have an interest in this area the book is definitely a worthwhile acquisition.

I, and I'm sure many others, have greatly benefited from Carl's fantastic website and photo collections!

The comment on the crucible steel theory is intriguing given the publicity the documentary from PBS gave the topic. Is there a paper forthcoming to layout a refutation of the crucible steel hypothesis?

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Iain

Is there a paper forthcoming to layout a refutation of the crucible steel hypothesis?

In due course a book with the papers presented at the Sword Form & Thought conference is expected to be published.

The presentation relied upon further radiographic studies of four of the swords examined by Dr. Williams that showed imperfections interpreted as indicative of forging from typical bloomery product. Concerns were raised on the (understandable) limitations in extent of metallographic sampling imposed on the original study by the owners of the objects and on interpretation difficulties for subsequent viewers from the images published without scale.

Here is the abstract from the conference program:

[Lee]

You may also find this to be interesting.

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Lee

You may also find this to be interesting.

Thanks Lee, both the abstract and the link were intriguing.

[J.G.Elmslie]

Originally Posted by Lee

the rumor at the conference was that direct mail order purchase is apparently somewhat cumbersome as the museum is a unit of the city government and is limited by regulations beyond its control.

Exactly my experience. Cumbersome, and a trainwreck. no simple payment option, for example.

My copy was sent out before any invoice, arrived, and then got a letter from the solingen council, demanding payment (all in german of course), with additional fees for processing it because the invoice (which had never been sent to me) hadn't been paid.