Ottoman matchlock examples.

estcrh · 7th December 2015, 01:47 PM

Here are a couple of close up images from Eftihis, one shows what look like a small brass tube attached to the stock for a pricker to clean the primer pan hole. The others show the inlay and channels cut into the barrel and the stock inlay.

Pukka Bundook · 8th December 2015, 12:57 AM

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

estcrh · 8th December 2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

Pukka, I noticed that recently many Ottoman flintlocks have been for sale, beautiful ones like the one you posted, but it is next to imposible to find a decent matchlock image, here is another one, 16th century, Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul, Turkey.

estcrh · 8th December 2015, 06:49 PM

Topkapı Palace Museum.

Pukka Bundook · 9th December 2015, 04:42 AM

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

estcrh · 9th December 2015, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

Richard, some very good questions, were the Ottomans so efficient in repurposing the matchlocks that we are left with a handful today. It was probably the barrel that was the hardest and most expensive part to produce, there was probably a value in them from other cultures even when they were outdated at home. I can not remember even seeing a Persian matchlock, the flintlocks are quite rare as well, there must have been many at one time, they seen to have disappeared to.

This image supposedly shows how those beautiful barrels were produced.

Pukka Bundook · 9th December 2015, 02:42 PM

Eric,

Yes, this is the later "Damascus" style twist.
The earlier types were a stub -iron twist, as shown below;

Richard.
Manouchehr M. has some wonderful photos of Persian arms in his book when published, and some very nice photos in his series on Persian arms in Classic Arms Magazine.

Kubur · 9th December 2015, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?

Richard.

I have the same feeling...
Kubur

estcrh · 9th December 2015, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Richard.

Here are two Ottoman matchlocks next to a miquelet for comparison, what do you think.

Pukka Bundook · 9th December 2015, 06:28 PM

I think the miquelet started out as a matchlock nearly for sure, with the very similar styling.
There is no reason for a miquelet stock to angle behind the breech as does this example, (and the others above) The only thing to cause this, is fashion of former arms, (matchlock) Or,....conversion from said matchlock.

Do nice old matchlock barrels turn up in other places besides Oman? (apart from a few in India that are not the usual Indian/Indo /Persian work)

Richard.
Edited to say these are probably the nicest Ottoman barrels I have ever seen. Thanks for posting them.

7th December 2015, 01:47 PM	#1
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Here are a couple of close up images from Eftihis, one shows what look like a small brass tube attached to the stock for a pricker to clean the primer pan hole. The others show the inlay and channels cut into the barrel and the stock inlay. Attached Images

8th December 2015, 12:57 AM	#2
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year; Not a matchlock, but worth looking at! Attached Images

8th December 2015, 06:49 PM	#4
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Topkapı Palace Museum. Attached Images

9th December 2015, 02:42 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Eric, Yes, this is the later "Damascus" style twist. The earlier types were a stub -iron twist, as shown below; Richard. Manouchehr M. has some wonderful photos of Persian arms in his book when published, and some very nice photos in his series on Persian arms in Classic Arms Magazine. Attached Images

9th December 2015, 04:42 AM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Eric, It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock. It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all. Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later) We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years? I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....) What thinkest thou? Richard.

9th December 2015, 06:28 PM	#10
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I think the miquelet started out as a matchlock nearly for sure, with the very similar styling. There is no reason for a miquelet stock to angle behind the breech as does this example, (and the others above) The only thing to cause this, is fashion of former arms, (matchlock) Or,....conversion from said matchlock. Do nice old matchlock barrels turn up in other places besides Oman? (apart from a few in India that are not the usual Indian/Indo /Persian work) Richard. Edited to say these are probably the nicest Ottoman barrels I have ever seen. Thanks for posting them.