Ottoman matchlock examples.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by rickystl

First Photo: Since this gun with both matchlock and flintlock can be dated to at least 1683, does seem to offer evidence of the Ottomans use/experimentation with the miquelet flintlock early on. Almost a transistional piece.

Rick, here is a reference that dates the use of flintlocks by the Ottomans to the "late 16th century", it also states that the matchlock was used "well into the 17th century". I have read that the Ottomans started using matchlocks from the late 15th century/very early 16th century. This would indicate around two hundred years of matchlock use. It looks like the matchlock and flintlock/miguelet co-existed for quite some time.

"Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire", Ga ́bor A ́goston, Bruce Alan Masters, 2009.

[estcrh]

Here are a couple of close up images from Eftihis, one shows what look like a small brass tube attached to the stock for a pricker to clean the primer pan hole. The others show the inlay and channels cut into the barrel and the stock inlay.

[Pukka Bundook]

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

These images were from an Italian auction house earlier this year;
Not a matchlock, but worth looking at!

Pukka, I noticed that recently many Ottoman flintlocks have been for sale, beautiful ones like the one you posted, but it is next to imposible to find a decent matchlock image, here is another one, 16th century, Askeri Muzesi, Istanbul, Turkey.

[estcrh]

Topkapı Palace Museum.

[Pukka Bundook]

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?
I believe these barrels were Persian, but if so, Did Ottoman recycled arms meet the same fate? (Of being stripped down & barrels sent to another country for re-use? (Could explain the lack of original Ottoman examples.....)

What thinkest thou?

Richard.

Richard, some very good questions, were the Ottomans so efficient in repurposing the matchlocks that we are left with a handful today. It was probably the barrel that was the hardest and most expensive part to produce, there was probably a value in them from other cultures even when they were outdated at home. I can not remember even seeing a Persian matchlock, the flintlocks are quite rare as well, there must have been many at one time, they seen to have disappeared to.

This image supposedly shows how those beautiful barrels were produced.

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.

Another thing I am thinking about, is the Omani matchlocks we see with very fine early barrels, (17th C and a bit later)
We know these were not made in Oman, so, were they re-purposed Ottoman or Persian barrels, salvaged and re-used in later years?

Richard.

I have the same feeling...
Kubur

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Eric,

It could very well be that the above arms with miquelet type locks could have been converted from matchlock.
It would really take very little effort, and with a new panel of decoration where the serpentine came through the stock, would not really show at all.


Richard.

Here are two Ottoman matchlocks next to a miquelet for comparison, what do you think.