African knights - African armour collection thread

estcrh · 26th September 2015, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

estcrh, Thank you for your reply.. I don't want to bog down the thread as I have pointed out the Hicks was a badly recorded expedition as well as a total disaster; Wikipedia can hardly be blamed for misreporting and besides it is a self correcting encyclopedia as well as a monumental record of all things...and being web based is equally concerned with getting the facts right as we are.

I gave two entirely different references and you molded them both together...This is a bit unfair.

Ibrahiim, I should probably have worded my comment differently, I think we are just not understanding each other, the references were dead ends in the matter of were the Khedives armor was made and who made it, I know that you were just presenting some additional references, and the excellent research you put into your posts is much appreciated by me.

As for the Hicks expedition, here is an interesting print that shows the diverse and motley crew of soldiers cobbled together in an ill fated attempt to deal with the Mahdi.

Quote:

Left to right, Albanian Bashi Bazouk (Infantry), Kurd (Cavalry), Sudanese Regular, Bosnian Bashi Bazouk (Infantry), Syrian Bashi Bazouk, Egyptian Cuirssier, in Shirt of Mail, with Pot Helmet and LInked Hood Similar to that Worn by the Saracens of Saladia. Greek Bashi Bazouk from the Turkish Provences, Fella or Regular Egyptian Infantryman, Segir of the Dromedary (camel) Scouting Corps, and Segir or Arab from the Country between Shendy and Dongala.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 26th September 2015, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estcrh

Ibrahiim, I should probably have worded my comment differently, I think we are just not understanding each other, the references were dead ends in the matter of were the Khedives armor was made and who made it, I know that you were just presenting some additional references, and the excellent research you put into your posts is much appreciated by me.

As for the Hicks expedition, here is an interesting print that shows the diverse and motley crew of soldiers cobbled together in an ill fated attempt to deal with the Mahdi.

Salaams estcrh, I have no problem with this at all... Occasionally different people use different techniques to open these Pandoras box problems... Most people have trouble following the rapid twists and turns of a web that is crashing along at exponential rates of knowledge/detail intake. The picture you show of the Hicks soldiers is remarkable and probably one of those sketches for the London Times...Probably by the time that report was printed ...most of that huge expedition were dead....!!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 26th September 2015, 05:54 PM

This continues to be s most fascinating thread, and I very much admire the gentlemanly exchange in discussing differences in opinion and perspective, case in point Wikipedia and the more recent web phenomenon, Pininterest.
Like most everything, these kinds of venues serve well for many, and of course in varying cases and degrees.
As always, they are only as effective as those who proactively contribute to them, and can be most useful if the material presented is accurately and effectively entered.

I must reiterate, to me online resources are usually quite valuable, but as even with published resources the best policy is to recheck and confirm sources and cites. As noted, many of these references in these online venues are dated, improperly quoted and poorly cited. While their 'benchmark' standing remains, it becomes even more essential to continue research and confirmation.

The book "African Knights" sounds fascinating and I have ordered it!
"African Arms and Armour" has been a keystone in my African references for nearly two decades! and has always served me well. In the concurrent thread on throwing knives, after searching through a good number of esoteric reference sources, I found most of what I sought in 'Spring' (which most of us use to term this now venerable source).

Excellent thread!!!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 29th September 2015, 02:15 PM

More on African Armour...Mahdist undergarments etc used in the Hicks Massacre and at Omdurman ...

eftihis · 6th October 2015, 01:19 PM

Here are closer photos of the mail. I have seen one similar described as Ottoman.

estcrh · 6th October 2015, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eftihis

Here are closer photos of the mail. I have seen one similar described as Ottoman.

Very nice images, it certainly is not Indian mail. I would say either Ottoman or Persian, either way you did good on these, I seem to remember they sold for a rather low price. Do you have a weight and or measurement.

eftihis · 7th October 2015, 12:06 AM

Dear estcrh, thanks for your input and let me congratulate you for the thousands of images that you have gathered in your boards! I was like lost there for some hours! The weight is 12,5 kg the 2 together, so i guess 6,250kg each (my scale couldnt work with just one on it!)

29th September 2015, 02:15 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	More on African Armour...Mahdist undergarments etc used in the Hicks Massacre and at Omdurman ... Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 29th September 2015 at 02:45 PM.

6th October 2015, 01:19 PM	#5
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Here are closer photos of the mail. I have seen one similar described as Ottoman. Attached Images

26th September 2015, 05:54 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	This continues to be s most fascinating thread, and I very much admire the gentlemanly exchange in discussing differences in opinion and perspective, case in point Wikipedia and the more recent web phenomenon, Pininterest. Like most everything, these kinds of venues serve well for many, and of course in varying cases and degrees. As always, they are only as effective as those who proactively contribute to them, and can be most useful if the material presented is accurately and effectively entered. I must reiterate, to me online resources are usually quite valuable, but as even with published resources the best policy is to recheck and confirm sources and cites. As noted, many of these references in these online venues are dated, improperly quoted and poorly cited. While their 'benchmark' standing remains, it becomes even more essential to continue research and confirmation. The book "African Knights" sounds fascinating and I have ordered it! "African Arms and Armour" has been a keystone in my African references for nearly two decades! and has always served me well. In the concurrent thread on throwing knives, after searching through a good number of esoteric reference sources, I found most of what I sought in 'Spring' (which most of us use to term this now venerable source). Excellent thread!!!

7th October 2015, 12:06 AM	#7
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Dear estcrh, thanks for your input and let me congratulate you for the thousands of images that you have gathered in your boards! I was like lost there for some hours! The weight is 12,5 kg the 2 together, so i guess 6,250kg each (my scale couldnt work with just one on it!)