African knights - African armour collection thread

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I would note here that Wikipedia is not entirely a useless source, but indeed must be used with caution and as you say, the sources must be rechecked.

Regarding the Wilkinson data, probably the best source for confirmation would be Mr Robert Wilkinson himself. He is a brilliant scholar, author and archivist who probably has more data on anything Wilkinson or associated than anyone else.

Jim, I have actually created several articles on Wikipedia about Japanese armor, weapons and horse related equipment and edited many more, adding good images and verifiable references. I have also added, categorized and edited thousands of images on Wikimedia Commons. They are both usefull sites when the information is correct. Unfortunately in this case when I searched for the information supposedly contained in the Wikipedia references I could find nothing, that is what I meant by "useless". The references could be good but unless someone can trace the references back and see for themselves then they are not useful for research.

It is quite possible that some of the armor used by the Khedives forces did in fact come from Wilkinson, but until the smoking gun is found it is best to let people know that Wilkinson "may" have made some of the armor rather than say they absolutely did make some of the armor. Your suggestion about contacting Wilkinson directly is an excellent approach.

[Jim McDougall]

Absolutely, and as you can see as a reliable participant on Wikipedia, it is all very much relative, and many entries such as those you placed are entirely usable. As I noted, it is incumbent on the user to take caution in the use of the material and must serve as a benchmark, not a final citation.

With Pininterest, I must admit I am largely unfamiliar but I know my wife, daughters etc use it a great deal. I had never thought of it as a resource for research as I thought it was mostly montage's of unattributed photos. While these are of course wonderfully attractive and intriguing, I have thought they were not especially helpful without captioning or pertinent identifying data. Is this perception incorrect?
It would be admittedly a great resource if indeed with those factors.

Actually with the armor, it seems references I had seen noted the mail had come from Birmingham, of course the key industrial area known for arms and all manner of equipment. Wilkinson was of course not in Birmingham so perhaps it might have been a Wilkinson subcontractor. Of these there were a good number, especially for colonially intended products. It seems that Mole was one for swords for example in those headed for India.

After Omdurman and during the Condominium, there was such a demand for souveniers that when supplies of actual items from the Sudanese faltered, there were facsimile items such as spearheads etc made in Birmingham to supply the souks.

The equipage of the Mahdist forces was certainly a hodgepodge and gathered from all kinds of sources, so to see varying helmets, swords, etc. must have been amazing. The sound mail hauberks from Mamluk/Ottoman sources certainly would have been represented in considerable numbers.

The examples of British manufacture which were apparently in degree with the Khedival forces as I found, were left and only the helmets taken, along of course with rifles etc. In the early part of the Mahdiyya most tribesmen did not even have swords. In references I have seen, many of the rank and file had wooden swords, and retrieved the swords of the fallen during the combats.

It would be extremely difficult to assert the presence of or absence of certain types of arms and armor in these campaigns due to the remarkably ersatz nature of equipping these forces. It is still interesting to seek any examples which may have been used in degree however.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

With Pininterest, I must admit I am largely unfamiliar but I know my wife, daughters etc use it a great deal. I had never thought of it as a resource for research as I thought it was mostly montage's of unattributed photos. While these are of course wonderfully attractive and intriguing, I have thought they were not especially helpful without captioning or pertinent identifying data. Is this perception incorrect?
It would be admittedly a great resource if indeed with those factors.

Jim, Pinterest is currently the best way to store and share photos and information with other people, basically everyone can have/be their own mini Wikipedia, each Pinterest post is allowed a 500 character description, if this is not enough one can write as much as they want on a notepad on their computer, they can then turn what they have written into a .jpg image by doing a screen print etc and saving it on their computer using an editor such as Irfanview, and then by using an editor they can easily attach/combine what they wrote to the image they want to post. I find that 500 characters is usually enough to adequitely describe most photos. You can also insert links to websites, articles, pdf etc.

If you have not already done so, please take a look at my Pinterest page and take a few minutes to open some of the categories I have created and look at the photos I have posted, read some descriptions and see for yourself, let me know what you think.

A few short years ago you could find almost no online information or photos of Khedival armor, now try a simple google search such as "khedive armor", see what you find under "web", then look under "images", no doubt you will see the real power of Pinterest. Due to Googles powerful search engine the internet is full of information and images of "khedive armor" for anyone to easily find, taken directly from Pinterest, forums, auctions, books and dealers websites. Some of what you will find was just posted a day or two ago, to me it is really amazing.

My Pinterest page.
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/