the Kampilan exclusively Moro?

[kronckew]

don't forget not all the 'moro' tribes supported the insurrection against the USA, a good proportion didn't and fought with the USA against the others.

tribal animosities taking precedence over religion and politics. pershing essentially defeated the moro insurrectionists by being more brutal and more inhumane than they were and more so than the US army had been to the native population of america in the preceding decades.

[David]

Originally Posted by kronckew

...more inhumane than they were and more so than the US army had been to the native population of america in the preceding decades.

I'm sure an argument could probably be made both ways on this.
And yes, different Moro tribes had very unique identities and cultures and were often not a united front.

[Rick]

Pershing was humane compared to Wood; but we digress .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

I'm sure an argument could probably be made both ways on this.
And yes, different Moro tribes had very unique identities and cultures and were often not a united front.

This is an intriguing discussion!
It seems reasonable to note that in any culture or civilization there will be deviations, ideals, religious and traditional variations etc. so assuming that any tribal group or ethnicity were entirely 'standardized' would be profoundly incorrect.

Question on 'animism', would this not be considered a 'classification' of a following of a form of faith rather than a structured religion?
It seems that Paganism was more structured, and often used animist oriented practices and beliefs. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the two terms so clarification would be appreciated.

It is great to see discussion looking into the origins of the kampilan. Like many ethnographic forms, it is often unclear whether the form itself existed deeper in antiquity, or was its name simply a term used for a type of weapon not necessarily of the same exact form?

[David]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

This is an intriguing discussion!
It seems reasonable to note that in any culture or civilization there will be deviations, ideals, religious and traditional variations etc. so assuming that any tribal group or ethnicity were entirely 'standardized' would be profoundly incorrect.

Well, probably the main thing that all Moros share in common as a standard is the religion of Islam. I honestly can't be sure, but i image that this religious belief as practiced by the various Moro tribes is fairly similar. However, the Moros are not a tribe per se, but rather they are are group of many tribes with varying languages (Manguindanaon, Tausug, Maranao mostly, though there is also Sama-Bajau languages, Yakan and Kalangan) and traditions.

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Question on 'animism', would this not be considered a 'classification' of a following of a form of faith rather than a structured religion?
It seems that Paganism was more structured, and often used animist oriented practices and beliefs. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the two terms so clarification would be appreciated.

Jim, religions can be considered "pagan", but there is no structured religion called Paganism. The term is often defines as below:
A religion that has many gods or goddesses, considers the earth holy, and does not have a central authority.
In my readings on the indigenous population of this area i am most often finding their beliefs describes as animistic. This is the indigenous belief system that existed amongst the peoples of these regions before the influx of outside religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. Animism is often defined as follows:
The belief in the existence of individual spirits that inhabit natural objects and phenomena.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by David

Well, probably the main thing that all Moros share in common as a standard is the religion of Islam. I honestly can't be sure, but i image that this religious belief as practiced by the various Moro tribes is fairly similar. However, the Moros are not a tribe per se, but rather they are are group of many tribes with varying languages (Manguindanaon, Tausug, Maranao mostly, though there is also Sama-Bajau languages, Yakan and Kalangan) and traditions.

Jim, religions can be considered "pagan", but there is no structured religion called Paganism. The term is often defines as below:
A religion that has many gods or goddesses, considers the earth holy, and does not have a central authority.
In my readings on the indigenous population of this area i am most often finding their beliefs describes as animistic. This is the indigenous belief system that existed amongst the peoples of these regions before the influx of outside religions such as Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. Animism is often defined as follows:
The belief in the existence of individual spirits that inhabit natural objects and phenomena.

Well explained David, thank you!
That clarification really does help as we consider the nature of the main topic here concerning the kampilan, and the suggestion of a 'Moro' classification for these swords, especially confining under that term.

While these terms do not of course apply specifically to the weapon we are discussing, it does help to understand the proper definition of them as we look into the tribal and ethnic groups using them. Actually even looking these up in dictionary definitions does not describe them as effectively as applied here with more specific ethnographical applications.

As Battara has well noted, the 'kampilan' as a form was likely a culmination of sword types in varying regions and tribal groups, and became known in the 'Moro' category by the Spanish.

[Battara]

And from a world religions perspective, I would classify animism as an understanding/perception and not a structured religion. Animism simply put (if that is possible) is the understanding that all of life is animated. As the Lakota say in American: "Everything has a spirit." This includes rocks, trees, and even some or most bladed weapons. In fact, bladed weapons can even be imbued with a spirit if it didn't have one.

I agree with the pagan definition. However not all pagan religions have an animistic understanding, and others have a limited view. It is a continuum if you will.

[VANDOO]

MY MISTAKE ISLAM PROBABLY CAME TO THE PHILIPPINES FROM MALAYSIA OR SOME OTHER PLACE WHERE THE KERIS WAS PRESENT. THE MOORS, AS YOU POINT OUT WERE THERE IN NAME ONLY WHICH ARRIVED WITH THE SPANISH. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SPECULATE WHAT SORT OF WEAPONS MIGHT HAVE EVOLVED IN THE PHILIPPINES IF THE MOORS HAD COLONIZED THERE.