Need translation for an Indian torador with heavy Barrel

Cerjak · 6th September 2015, 04:18 PM

This torador has a heavy barrel 112 cm for about 5.5 kg and diameter 20mm.
It has an arsenal mark.
I guess it could be a wall gun ,the barrel seems to be an early Turkish barrel.
Any comment on it would be welcome and of course a translation for the arsenal mark would be appreciated
Best
Cerjak

bhushan_lawate · 7th September 2015, 11:19 AM

Hi,

The script is Devanagari used for writing Sanskrit, Hindi and Marathi languages.

It reads Ra Ja Pa Li Ta(?) Ha Na Li

Which could be the name of a place or person. Mostly, a place
Also the writing appears to be done much later as the style looks to be of a much recent form.
Hope this is helpful.

Regards,
Bhushan

Cerjak · 7th September 2015, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Hi,

The script is Devanagari used for writing Sanskrit, Hindi and Marathi languages.

It reads Ra Ja Pa Li Ta(?) Ha Na Li

Which could be the name of a place or person. Mostly, a place
Also the writing appears to be done much later as the style looks to be of a much recent form.
Hope this is helpful.

Regards,
Bhushan

Dear bhushan_lawate

Thank you very much for the translation.
according to the style Do you have any idea from which period could be this writing?
I have in an other TORADOR with an other type of writing ,is it an older style of writing ?
Best

Cerjak

BANDOOK · 7th September 2015, 02:21 PM

GREETINGS CERJAK
THIS ONE HAS KOTA ARMOURY MARKS,WHICH WAS A PRINCELY STATE OF RAJASTHAN..NORTH WEST INDIA,CHEERS RAJESH
THE EARLIER ONE IS FROM THE JAIPUR ARMOURY ANOTHER IMPORTANT AND CAPITAL OF RAJASTHAN STATE,AND VERY NICE ETHNIC MUSKETS
PLEASE CAN YOU POST A GOOD PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE COLLECTION

Pukka Bundook · 7th September 2015, 03:28 PM

Very nice and interesting toradors, Cerjak!

The problem with markings, like with your first one, is that weapons moved around so much in India, war booty etc. and they could be very old before being captured (or whatever) and given inventory numbers in their 'new' arsenal. This could happen to an arm more than once, so making the trail very murky for us to follow.
I also believe the markings are much newer than the torador, but this only adds interest! It has a history, and finding out what we can is the intriguing part!

Richard.
Edited to add;

I note there appears never to have been a pan cover fitted. This appears quite common on Toradors, but (Only once I think) I saw a torador with a slip-on pan cover, that was attached to the gun by a chain or thong.
I wonder how common a slip-on cover would have been?

Cerjak · 7th September 2015, 04:01 PM

Dear Richard,

Thank you for your comment ,by the way the top torador in my pictures still have his pan cover.
best

Cerjak

rickystl · 7th September 2015, 04:57 PM

Hi Cerjak.
The dimensions, weight, and caliber of the barrel would seem to put this in wall gun territory. And the design of the barrel, especially the breech area shows an Indian made barrel. Many of the wall guns tended to have slightly shorter, but heavier barrels. And this one seems to be a good example.

Pan Covers: Yes, it appears some were made with covers, and others not. I don't understand why they would make a matchlock without one? Maybe something to do with the loading/firing procedure?
What I find curious is the pan covers were made of a very thin, almost flimsey piece of flat iron. Which probably accounts why so many covers are broke off and missing. You would think for all the work that went in to making the barrels that they would make the pan cover of a bit more robust material. Possibly they were made thin to have a somewhat flex to keep the pan cover still while loaded? But the actual lack of a pan cover is a mystery to me.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. Great looking long gun collection!!! I really like that Rasak!!
Rick.

rickystl · 7th September 2015, 05:06 PM

By the way, as long as we are on this subject............

There is a mark on the bottom breach area of my Torador barrel. Due to the location of this mark, I'm thinking it's possibly just a barrel maker's mark. Has anyone seen this mark? Maybe on a blade? Thanks.
Rick.

rickystl · 7th September 2015, 05:07 PM

WOOOPS.......forgot to post the pic.

Cerjak · 10th September 2015, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Cerjak.
The dimensions, weight, and caliber of the barrel would seem to put this in wall gun territory. And the design of the barrel, especially the breech area shows an Indian made barrel. Many of the wall guns tended to have slightly shorter, but heavier barrels. And this one seems to be a good example.

Pan Covers: Yes, it appears some were made with covers, and others not. I don't understand why they would make a matchlock without one? Maybe something to do with the loading/firing procedure?
What I find curious is the pan covers were made of a very thin, almost flimsey piece of flat iron. Which probably accounts why so many covers are broke off and missing. You would think for all the work that went in to making the barrels that they would make the pan cover of a bit more robust material. Possibly they were made thin to have a somewhat flex to keep the pan cover still while loaded? But the actual lack of a pan cover is a mystery to me.
Anyway, thanks for sharing. Great looking long gun collection!!! I really like that Rasak!!
Rick.

Hi Rick
Thank you for your comment, by the way I have to say that it is always a pleasure to read your posts showing your amazing collection.
Best Cerjak

rickystl · 12th September 2015, 03:40 AM

Thanks Cerjack. Yes, a lot of Ethno guns. LOL
And, by the way, the Sind rifle "shoots" as good as it looks!!

Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 12th September 2015, 05:03 AM

Rick,

Can you give us some details on this?, maybe in another thread so we don't Hijack this one. :-)

Richard.

rickystl · 17th September 2015, 07:02 PM

Hi Richard. Which item are you requesting ?
Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 18th September 2015, 05:26 AM

Rick,
I got the impression you had fired the Sind matchlock, and wondered how it went.......as in, details?

Maybe I mistook you though!!

R.

rickystl · 20th September 2015, 06:05 PM

Hi Richard.
I've been out of commission for a couple weeks. LOL
No, I was mentioning to Cerjak that the Sind "percussion" rifle I purchased from him about 3-4 years ago still shoots as well as it looks. I just mentioned it to him as a matter of passing. Sorry for the confusion. No one else would have understood what I meant. LOL
I posted this gun a while back here on the Forum. If interested, I can update the original Thread with my shooting experience. Thanks.
Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 21st September 2015, 03:59 PM

Please do, Rick. :-)

rickystl · 26th September 2015, 07:52 PM

Hi Richard.
Well, I didn't take any photos of the last shooting session. But next Spring, I will have videos of shooting sessions done with the various Ethno guns in my collection. I'm thinking of doing two each weekend, and Posting here on the Forum with a YouTube Link. I still need to finish two guns for this. The Albanian Tanchika, and this Torador matchlock. The Tanchika needs a barrel liner, and probably the Torador also.

Meantime, the gunsmith has drilled out the breech plug of the Torador barrel, and it should be on the way back to me. Once I receive it, I'll update my original Thread. Can't wait to get it and take pics. LOL
Rick.

6th September 2015, 04:18 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Need translation for an Indian torador with heavy Barrel This torador has a heavy barrel 112 cm for about 5.5 kg and diameter 20mm. It has an arsenal mark. I guess it could be a wall gun ,the barrel seems to be an early Turkish barrel. Any comment on it would be welcome and of course a translation for the arsenal mark would be appreciated Best Cerjak Attached Images

7th September 2015, 04:01 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Dear Richard, Thank you for your comment ,by the way the top torador in my pictures still have his pan cover. best Cerjak Attached Images

7th September 2015, 05:07 PM	#9
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	WOOOPS.......forgot to post the pic. Attached Images

20th September 2015, 06:05 PM	#15
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Richard. I've been out of commission for a couple weeks. LOL No, I was mentioning to Cerjak that the Sind "percussion" rifle I purchased from him about 3-4 years ago still shoots as well as it looks. I just mentioned it to him as a matter of passing. Sorry for the confusion. No one else would have understood what I meant. LOL I posted this gun a while back here on the Forum. If interested, I can update the original Thread with my shooting experience. Thanks. Rick. Attached Images

7th September 2015, 11:19 AM	#2
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi, The script is Devanagari used for writing Sanskrit, Hindi and Marathi languages. It reads Ra Ja Pa Li Ta(?) Ha Na Li Which could be the name of a place or person. Mostly, a place Also the writing appears to be done much later as the style looks to be of a much recent form. Hope this is helpful. Regards, Bhushan

7th September 2015, 02:21 PM	#4
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	GREETINGS CERJAK THIS ONE HAS KOTA ARMOURY MARKS,WHICH WAS A PRINCELY STATE OF RAJASTHAN..NORTH WEST INDIA,CHEERS RAJESH THE EARLIER ONE IS FROM THE JAIPUR ARMOURY ANOTHER IMPORTANT AND CAPITAL OF RAJASTHAN STATE,AND VERY NICE ETHNIC MUSKETS PLEASE CAN YOU POST A GOOD PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE COLLECTION

7th September 2015, 03:28 PM	#5
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Very nice and interesting toradors, Cerjak! The problem with markings, like with your first one, is that weapons moved around so much in India, war booty etc. and they could be very old before being captured (or whatever) and given inventory numbers in their 'new' arsenal. This could happen to an arm more than once, so making the trail very murky for us to follow. I also believe the markings are much newer than the torador, but this only adds interest! It has a history, and finding out what we can is the intriguing part! Richard. Edited to add; I note there appears never to have been a pan cover fitted. This appears quite common on Toradors, but (Only once I think) I saw a torador with a slip-on pan cover, that was attached to the gun by a chain or thong. I wonder how common a slip-on cover would have been?

7th September 2015, 04:57 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Cerjak. The dimensions, weight, and caliber of the barrel would seem to put this in wall gun territory. And the design of the barrel, especially the breech area shows an Indian made barrel. Many of the wall guns tended to have slightly shorter, but heavier barrels. And this one seems to be a good example. Pan Covers: Yes, it appears some were made with covers, and others not. I don't understand why they would make a matchlock without one? Maybe something to do with the loading/firing procedure? What I find curious is the pan covers were made of a very thin, almost flimsey piece of flat iron. Which probably accounts why so many covers are broke off and missing. You would think for all the work that went in to making the barrels that they would make the pan cover of a bit more robust material. Possibly they were made thin to have a somewhat flex to keep the pan cover still while loaded? But the actual lack of a pan cover is a mystery to me. Anyway, thanks for sharing. Great looking long gun collection!!! I really like that Rasak!! Rick.

7th September 2015, 05:06 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	By the way, as long as we are on this subject............ There is a mark on the bottom breach area of my Torador barrel. Due to the location of this mark, I'm thinking it's possibly just a barrel maker's mark. Has anyone seen this mark? Maybe on a blade? Thanks. Rick.

12th September 2015, 03:40 AM	#11
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Thanks Cerjack. Yes, a lot of Ethno guns. LOL And, by the way, the Sind rifle "shoots" as good as it looks!! Rick.

12th September 2015, 05:03 AM	#12
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, Can you give us some details on this?, maybe in another thread so we don't Hijack this one. :-) Richard.

17th September 2015, 07:02 PM	#13
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Richard. Which item are you requesting ? Rick.

18th September 2015, 05:26 AM	#14
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, I got the impression you had fired the Sind matchlock, and wondered how it went.......as in, details? Maybe I mistook you though!! R.

21st September 2015, 03:59 PM	#16
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Please do, Rick. :-)

26th September 2015, 07:52 PM	#17
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	Hi Richard. Well, I didn't take any photos of the last shooting session. But next Spring, I will have videos of shooting sessions done with the various Ethno guns in my collection. I'm thinking of doing two each weekend, and Posting here on the Forum with a YouTube Link. I still need to finish two guns for this. The Albanian Tanchika, and this Torador matchlock. The Tanchika needs a barrel liner, and probably the Torador also. Meantime, the gunsmith has drilled out the breech plug of the Torador barrel, and it should be on the way back to me. Once I receive it, I'll update my original Thread. Can't wait to get it and take pics. LOL Rick.