Majaphit spear tip, the one that got away

Pusaka · 30th December 2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mans

Hi Pusaka,
I see any twin Puthut (Jawa = Puthut Kembar) at up side of this spear and the Twin Dragon (Jawa = Naga Kembar) at the bottom side (Sorsoran). I never seen or heard before that any OLD Keris or OLD Spear which has both of Naga Kembar and Puthut Kembar on one piece. Both of it has a different histories.
So, the spear like this can be called as KALAWIJAN.
For comparison : http://gallerykeris.fotopic.net/p24159798.html
This Trisula made about 1960's - 1970's from Aeng Tong-Tong Madura island.
I more like if this spears told as it was.

I really don't know how the Maduranese Spears which made about 1960's - 1980's can changed to be a Majapahit Spears

Did you has know

Maybe it’s not typical but remember it was in a well known museum displayed for years so I would think that the museum directors would have ensured its authenticity.

nechesh · 30th December 2005, 03:01 PM

Pusaka, what museum was this supposed to have been in? Did this information come from the museum itself or the guy trying to sell the spear? Two points i'd like to drive home here:
1. Sellers have been known to lie inorder to get high prices for low value items.
2. Yes, museums, even good museums can and have been wrong about all kinds of things that have been in their collections for years. This is especially easy in the field of ethnographic edged weapons and especially especially easy when it comes to weapons of Indonesia. The fact is that there are very, very, very few people who can be considered "experts" on these weapons, even in Indonesia itself where the larger part of the population have, for better or worse, but this aspect of their heritage behind themselves. So even if the seller wasn't tell you a fish story this doesn't mean that the museum didn't have it completely wrong. If i were you i would consider youself luck you were late getting to this auction.

VANDOO · 30th December 2005, 03:34 PM

REGARDLESS OF ALL THE STORYS AND POSSIBLE INCORRECT INFORMATION IT IS A VERY COOL LOOKING SPEAR TIP

THE WORKMANSHIP ON THE TRISTULA IS ALSO VERY NICELY DONE, I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL VERY NICE ORNATE INDONESIAN SPEAR POINTS AT THE SHOW IN TIMONIUM, ARE THEY MOSTLY MADE IN MADURA OR ARE THEY ALSO MADE IN JAVA, BALI AND OTHER AREAS?
I HAVE A EXAMPLE THAT I GOT ON AMBON ISLAND IN THE MOLUCCAS IT IS SAID TO HAVE BELONGED TO THE RAJAH NAULU OF CERAM. I WILL TRY AND FIND IT AND TAKE A PICTURE. I DON'T KNOW IF THE STORY IS TRUE OR NOT BUT IT IS A NICE ITEM AND I HAD FUN BARGINING FOR IT ,BUT THAT IS ANOTHER STORY

Battara · 30th December 2005, 05:31 PM

Yes this is a beautiful puppy (woof!

). I have seen a couple of these at Timonium and other places. My question is similar to those of you who have posted earlier: how can one tell if it is Majapahit or recent?

Mans · 30th December 2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

2. Yes, museums, even good museums can and have been wrong about all kinds of things that have been in their collections for years. This is especially easy in the field of ethnographic edged weapons and especially easy when it comes to weapons of Indonesia. The fact is that there are very, very, very few people who can be considered "experts" on these weapons, even in Indonesia itself where the larger part of the population have, for better or worse, but this aspect of their heritage behind themselves.

Absolutely right !!
To estimate where the keris or spears come and when it made (Jawa = Tangguh), we must knew about the iron. It just go back to the purpose of TOSAN AJI. Tosan mean Iron, and AJI mean Magical power (Tuah). So, first thing which we much know is an iron it self. How the iron fibrous, try to know the forge technique. Then we must know well about the styles the blade and ricikans ect.
Here I posted the example of the iron spear and keris from Majapahit period.

Pusaka · 30th December 2005, 06:18 PM

On the subject of Majaphit has anyone got any idea what this object was used for

what a strange looking object!

http://www.indonetwork.co.id/JogjaMedianet/111559

Pusaka · 30th December 2005, 06:20 PM

Ha-ha I think I just worked it out

Rick · 30th December 2005, 06:43 PM

Easier to look at it in the proper orientation .
Looks like a wayang figural tombak with a Balinese Ganesha ukiran .

Mans · 2nd January 2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Easier to look at it in the proper orientation.

Like a psychology test

cerulean · 6th January 2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Easier to look at it in the proper orientation .
Looks like a wayang figural tombak with a Balinese Ganesha ukiran .

I thought it was some kind of scary mask until it was turned right side up. Yes… I’m insane.

BluErf · 2nd January 2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

2. Yes, museums, even good museums can and have been wrong about all kinds of things that have been in their collections for years.

Maybe the museum found out and wanted to get rid of the spear head.

30th December 2005, 06:18 PM	#6
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	On the subject of Majaphit has anyone got any idea what this object was used for what a strange looking object! http://www.indonetwork.co.id/JogjaMedianet/111559 Attached Images

30th December 2005, 06:43 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Easier to look at it in the proper orientation . Looks like a wayang figural tombak with a Balinese Ganesha ukiran . Attached Images

30th December 2005, 03:01 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Pusaka, what museum was this supposed to have been in? Did this information come from the museum itself or the guy trying to sell the spear? Two points i'd like to drive home here: 1. Sellers have been known to lie inorder to get high prices for low value items. 2. Yes, museums, even good museums can and have been wrong about all kinds of things that have been in their collections for years. This is especially easy in the field of ethnographic edged weapons and especially especially easy when it comes to weapons of Indonesia. The fact is that there are very, very, very few people who can be considered "experts" on these weapons, even in Indonesia itself where the larger part of the population have, for better or worse, but this aspect of their heritage behind themselves. So even if the seller wasn't tell you a fish story this doesn't mean that the museum didn't have it completely wrong. If i were you i would consider youself luck you were late getting to this auction.

30th December 2005, 03:34 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	REGARDLESS OF ALL THE STORYS AND POSSIBLE INCORRECT INFORMATION IT IS A VERY COOL LOOKING SPEAR TIP THE WORKMANSHIP ON THE TRISTULA IS ALSO VERY NICELY DONE, I HAVE SEEN SEVERAL VERY NICE ORNATE INDONESIAN SPEAR POINTS AT THE SHOW IN TIMONIUM, ARE THEY MOSTLY MADE IN MADURA OR ARE THEY ALSO MADE IN JAVA, BALI AND OTHER AREAS? I HAVE A EXAMPLE THAT I GOT ON AMBON ISLAND IN THE MOLUCCAS IT IS SAID TO HAVE BELONGED TO THE RAJAH NAULU OF CERAM. I WILL TRY AND FIND IT AND TAKE A PICTURE. I DON'T KNOW IF THE STORY IS TRUE OR NOT BUT IT IS A NICE ITEM AND I HAD FUN BARGINING FOR IT ,BUT THAT IS ANOTHER STORY

30th December 2005, 05:31 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Yes this is a beautiful puppy (woof! ). I have seen a couple of these at Timonium and other places. My question is similar to those of you who have posted earlier: how can one tell if it is Majapahit or recent?

30th December 2005, 06:20 PM	#7
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Ha-ha I think I just worked it out