Recently acquired Kukri.

[sirupate]

Hi David, judging by the butt cap it is 20th Century, and it has the look of circa WW2, possibly military but without provenance we will never know

[mrcjgscott]

Hello David,

Thanks for sharing your new acquisition, I am always pleased to see another person bitten by the kukri bug! You'll find that two is a good number to own, but three is better, and so forth.

I think we can safely rule out the 19th century. Your piece could easily have been made anywhere between the 1930's and the 1950's. Are the bolster and butt plate brass, or steel?

The scabbard certainly points to it being slightly later, but of course there is nothing to say that it is the original to the kukri, they are easily swapped or traded, or replaced: either when it was being used, or by a later dealer/collector.

A nice working kukri, sometimes known in the collecting community as a "villiager" as it is exactly what your average Nepali of the period would have carried during his everyday activities in and around the village.

It certainly shows evidence of sharpening, so this was not bought by somebody to hang on the wall, but rather on somebody's hip.

All in all a nice period piece, well done! (Now you'll have to show us your other kukri...)

[sirupate]

Kukri inspection in 1946, for the Victory Celebrations of WW2 on the 8th June.
The photo (GM in Winchester) shows patterns on the scabbards of their issued kukri. This being only a part the original 'Official Photograph', the kukri and scabbards would have to be 'Official Kit', as they were due to take part in the parades and marches through London.
Not all military scabbards were plain, one has to remember that in WW2
96, 600.00 kukri had to be found/produced and issued for the Gurkhas alone, not including refitting and rebuilt battalions such as the 2/7th and 2/9th Gurkhas.

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by sirupate

Kukri inspection in 1946, for the Victory Celebrations of WW2 on the 8th June.
The photo (GM in Winchester) shows patterns on the scabbards of their issued kukri. This being only a part the original 'Official Photograph', the kukri and scabbards would have to be 'Official Kit', as they were due to take part in the parades and marches through London.
Not all military scabbards were plain, one has to remember that in WW2
96, 600.00 kukri had to be found/produced and issued for the Gurkhas alone, not including refitting and rebuilt battalions such as the 2/7th and 2/9th Gurkhas.

Hello Simon,

I don't remember declaring that "patterns" or decorations were a no no for military kukri?

It is interesting to note however, that when one views the photograph as a whole, rather than the neatly cropped close up you provide, that only the two NCO's are holding decorated scabbards.

Perhaps senior NCO's were permitted the distinction of a "dress" scabbard whilst on parade? Whether such a scabbard would be sanctioned, or even practical during active service is quite another matter.

Either way, the style and method of decoration used on the NCO's kukri in the photograph is quite different from the one on David's kukri, which is more commonly found on the cheaper, post WW2 tourist "lionshead" variety. (Image attached)

As I said previously, scabbards are easily interchanged over a period of time, so it is best not to read too much into it.

Kind regards,

Chris

[sirupate]

Hi Chris, you haven't taken into account the reflection which even on your bottom picture of the kukri inspection (first Havildar on the left) almost blurs out the pattern, with the third Gurkha (left-right)even with the reflection you can still just about see some pattern marks, and who knows out of the 96,000 + kukri issued to the Gurkhas alone (notwithstanding other regiments entitled to kukri, replacement of kukri lost/broken and battalions having to be reformed) what was on what scabbard? All the best Simon

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by sirupate

Hi Chris, you haven't taken into account the reflection which even on your bottom picture of the kukri inspection (first Havildar on the left) almost blurs out the pattern, with the third Gurkha (left-right)even with the reflection you can still just about see some pattern marks, and who knows out of the 96,000 + kukri issued to the Gurkhas alone (notwithstanding other regiments entitled to kukri, replacement of kukri lost/broken and battalions having to be reformed) what was on what scabbard? All the best Simon

Hello Simon,

Perhaps if you follow this link to a supersize version of the same image, things may become a little clearer for you:

http://www.ikrhs.com/forums/download/file.php?id=4508

Looking at the decoration on the scabbard held by the 2nd NCO from the left, once can see the decoration extends over two thirds of the way down the scabbard. Even taking into account the reflection, it is quite clear that the other two are not decorated in the same fashion.

If you wish to further discuss which kukri were carried by whom and when, I suggest you start a new thread, so that we do not detract from David's original post.

Kind regards,

Chris

[sirupate]

As I said reflection, and Jonathan and I must have the same picture from the GM Chris

[David R]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Hello David,


A nice working kukri, sometimes known in the collecting community as a "villiager" as it is exactly what your average Nepali of the period would have carried during his everyday activities in and around the village.

It certainly shows evidence of sharpening, so this was not bought by somebody to hang on the wall, but rather on somebody's hip.

All in all a nice period piece, well done! (Now you'll have to show us your other kukri...)

Well I am happy with what people have said here, my real worry was that it was going to be one of souvenir pieces, a 20th C villager is all I could wish for.
My other Kukri is this one, bought for 30 bob when I was a schoolboy. 48 cm from one extremity to the other, and probably is a 19th C Nepalese Army one.

[sirupate]

Originally Posted by David R

Well I am happy with what people have said here, my real worry was that it was going to be one of souvenir pieces, a 20th C villager is all I could wish for.
My other Kukri is this one, bought for 30 bob when I was a schoolboy. 48 cm from one extremity to the other, and probably is a 19th C Nepalese Army one.

Also I said don't rule out your recent buy being potentially military, we just simply can't say whether or not it is civilian or military.
Your other kukri looks a nice piece, hard to say whether it was civilian or military mind;
Here is a late 19th Century 2/4th GR kukri

[sirupate]

Here is one, potentially from the Lushai Expedition of 1888-1889, from Brigadier Lanton's collection

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by David R

Well I am happy with what people have said here, my real worry was that it was going to be one of souvenir pieces, a 20th C villager is all I could wish for.
My other Kukri is this one, bought for 30 bob when I was a schoolboy. 48 cm from one extremity to the other, and probably is a 19th C Nepalese Army one.

Hello David,

A lovely piece. Certainly no reason why it couldn't be late 19thc and military issue. Certainly of Nepalese manufacture, and the blade is reminiscent of earlier styles, known as hanshee/lambendh, as is the wide kaudi thereon.

Thanks for sharing,

Chris

[sirupate]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

Hello David,

A lovely piece. Certainly no reason why it couldn't be late 19thc and military issue. Certainly of Nepalese manufacture, and the blade is reminiscent of earlier styles, known as hanshee/lambendh, as is the wide kaudi thereon.

Thanks for sharing,

Chris

Hi Chris, I don't think one can be certain it was of Nepalese manufacture, especially if it was military.
Of course the Hanshee/Lambendh labels are not Nepalese but Westerners trying to label certain types of kukri, Hanshee by John Powell and Lambendh by Jonathan Sedwell.
As you say Chris reminiscent of earlier types, although the 'Hanshee' name was given to quite a distinctive type, all the best Simon
Hanshee and other 18th Century Kukri, from the National Museum in Kathmandu in Nepal;

[mrcjgscott]

Originally Posted by sirupate

As I said reflection, and Jonathan and I must have the same picture from the GM Chris

It is quite clearly not a reflection Simon, one only has to study the enlarged image to see that.

My own copy of this image came courtesy of the Imperial War Museum, Lambeth.

Originally Posted by sirupate

Hi Chris, I don't think one can be certain it was of Nepalese manufacture, especially if it was military.
Of course the Hanshee/Lambendh labels are not Nepalese but Westerners trying to label certain types of kukri, Hanshee by John Powell and Lambendh by Jonathan Sedwell.
As you say Chris reminiscent of earlier types, although the 'Hanshee' name was given to quite a distinctive type, all the best Simon
Hanshee and other 18th Century Kukri, from the National Museum in Kathmandu in Nepal;

I think one can be as certain as one can be that the kukri is Nepalese in origin, rather than Indian. What makes you think it isn't?

In regards to the typology of kukri that is rather a broad subject, again, probably best discussed elsewhere, so as not to clutter up this thread.

However, as no real terms exist in Nepal to distinguish between kukri types, in order to separate various design features and further our knowledge, such "labels" must be employed.

I believe it was Bill Martino who introduced the term "Hanshee", which was a corruption of the word "hansiya", a term used for a sickle like tool. It may be wrong, but it is still a term known and used by collectors, and as such, who am I to change it?

As "lambendh" literally translates as "long handle" it certainly makes the most sense. Different people use different terms, and in absence of any labels from the country of origin, we westerners with an interest in such things must do the best we can.

Kind regards,

Chris

[sirupate]

Originally Posted by mrcjgscott

I think one can be as certain as one can be that the kukri is Nepalese in origin, rather than Indian. What makes you think it isn't?

In regards to the typology of kukri that is rather a broad subject, again, probably best discussed elsewhere, so as not to clutter up this thread.

However, as no real terms exist in Nepal to distinguish between kukri types, in order to separate various design features and further our knowledge, such "labels" must be employed.

I believe it was Bill Martino who introduced the term "Hanshee", which was a corruption of the word "hansiya", a term used for a sickle like tool. It may be wrong, but it is still a term known and used by collectors, and as such, who am I to change it?

As "lambendh" literally translates as "long handle" it certainly makes the most sense. Different people use different terms, and in absence of any labels from the country of origin, we westerners with an interest in such things must do the best we can.

Kind regards,

Chris

Hi Chris,
Then the GM and the IWM must have the same picture, and we will have to agree to disagree, Gurkhas were not allowed to personalise issued kukri btw.
I don't think you can be certain at all, unless there is provenance with the kukri to say it was made in Nepal.
I believe you are right about Bill Martino coming up with the term Hanshee and JP adopting the term from Bill Martino.
Personally I see no need to label kukri, which the Nepalese don't have a name for, but each to their own.
All the best Simon