Pirate swords and weapons

M ELEY · 31st July 2015, 05:15 AM

Jim, you need to write a book about all of your experiences and such! I've said that before! I, fir one, would love to see your research on the wrecks published here, at least! I think with the passing of Michael we all need to be more retrospective of what we have to offer, be it snippets of information or whole columns of knowledge. In any case, regarding Mr. Clifford, I trust in his work. His past 'controversies' involve getting past government beaurocracy red tape on diving privileges, rights to treasure finds, and gossipy/snippy behavior with some of his compatriots, but NEVER falsification of his research.

Organizations, on the other had, I don't trust. Like governments or individuals, they have hidden agendas. Whether it be museums selling off cultural treasures at private auctions or governments that claim all valuable finds of any kind must be surrendered to them for 'the good of the people', it is all BS to me...

Gav, thanks for that unbroken thread-

VANDOO · 31st July 2015, 08:35 AM

THE CORROSION ON LEAD IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT ON SILVER SO AT LEAST THE OUTER COATING WITH THE MARKS AND SUCH ARE SILVER. IF LEAD IS IN THE CENTER THEN PERHAPS SOMEONE STOLE THE REAL SILVER INGOT AND MADE UP THIS ONE BACK IN THE DAY. IN SUCH A CASE PERHAPS THE FAKE INGOT COULD HAVE BEEN SECRETELY THROWN OVER THE SIDE WHEN SALVAGE WAS BEING DONE BY THE THIEF OR THIEVES SO THEY WOULD NOT BE FOUND OUT. THINGS OF THIS SORT HAVE HAPPEND SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY IF INDEED THERE IS LEAD PRESENT. A TREASURE HUNTER AND SCHOLAR OF ALL THINGS PIRATE AND TREASURE WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL. SHIPWRECKS AND PIRATES AAAARGH !

Jim McDougall · 1st August 2015, 09:29 PM

Thank you very much Mark!! and again well said on the notes on the integrity of Mr. Clifford's achievements and work.
Someone of his stature and reputation is always going to face controversy, and as noted, the notorious Captain Kidd is almost ironically another case of apparently undeserved controversy. But then, these larger than life figures often become such via that very influence, and frankly, makes them far more interesting, actually exciting !

Often I do wish I could write such a book, but honestly the thing in its hard to write in such an organized fashion of ongoing adventures in history and research as I am still headlong into them!!

That is why my posts on these pages often are so 'Tolstoyean' (?) as it suffices for me for the time. In essence, I am writing a book, but here

Speaking of that , it seems that Barry, you have a flair for innovative and creative ideas, as you perfectly illustrate in your deductive explanation on the lead and silver corrosion theme. Wonderfully suggested, and mindful of the "Maltese Falcon" !!!! A perfect plot which reveals the drama and intrigue which actually did prevail in these fantastic times.

Thank you so much guys! and Gav and Rick for the great links and input!!

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 1st August 2015, 11:24 PM

We believe what we want to believe Jim .

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/37626

Sometimes a big wind is just that .

kronckew · 2nd August 2015, 12:26 AM

oh, god - y'all got me going again. can't not think of this:

how much does pirate corn cost?

a buccaneer.

i recalled my son telling me that one when he was three. he's in his 40's now.

feel free to shoot me. with a lantaka.

Rick · 2nd August 2015, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

oh, god - y'all got me going again. can't not think of this:

how much does pirate corn cost?

a buccaneer.

i recalled my son telling me that one when he was three. he's in his 40's now.

feel free to shoot me. with a lantaka.

Hey, I've heard that one and that's what it actually costs here in Pyrat Country .

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2015, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

We believe what we want to believe Jim .

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/37626

Sometimes a big wind is just that .

Yup! Kinda my way of thinking.

Rick · 2nd August 2015, 02:12 AM

Yes, Jim .
Private funding means Investors .

This reminds me of the fellow that swore there was a freighter full of Platinum sunk off the Cape during the War Years .
He was in the News this Spring .
Uh oh !
No Platinum ...

He had 'Private Funding' too .
I hear those individuals are not at all happy .

Rainmakers .

Jim McDougall · 2nd August 2015, 05:45 AM

Very true Rick,
If you have followed the unbelievable 'Oak Island' uh, mysteries (?) this is a prime example of how far back these kinds of schemes go. Much of the now antiquated structuring and curious symbols etc are the remnants of earlier 'ventures' (usually syndicated) as well as Masonic oriented 'pranks', so the entire area is quite compromised as far as actual archaeological context.

I find the 'lead ballast' claims by this organization rather questionable, and am still looking into more on the nature of these ingots. While I know most people do indeed believe what they want, and especially if its in the news or on TV, I choose to research further without express conclusions either way.

The whole 'Captain Kidd' enterprise has really become a fascinating adventure in itself, and I have been reading through books on these 'ventures' which definitely do fall into the schemes category.

Mr. Clifford's outstanding work on so many historically key wrecks to me does put him in my opinion in a quite different league. Actually I was quite surprised that he was NOT considered a proper archaeologist!

Kronckew, that 'corny' joke was a hoot!! Reminds me of the goofy jokes my youngest grandson and I would come up with when he was about 8 (he's in the Marines now). They were true 'groaners' and we still laugh about 'em.

To DASHIELL VANDOO

, another idea for your plausible plot.....what if while this merry band of pirates, as the were looting the Capt Kidd ship in preparation to be scuttled......perhaps one stashed the ingot of silver in the hold with intents to return to claim it later? much in line with your other scenario.
I' m not sure these guys had the means to fabricate fake lead bars in these places, nor the time or inclination to go to that trouble. Melting down lead for shot is a lot different that smelting an ingot of this size!

1st August 2015, 11:24 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,378	A Good Yarn We believe what we want to believe Jim . http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/37626 Sometimes a big wind is just that .

31st July 2015, 05:15 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,211	Jim, you need to write a book about all of your experiences and such! I've said that before! I, fir one, would love to see your research on the wrecks published here, at least! I think with the passing of Michael we all need to be more retrospective of what we have to offer, be it snippets of information or whole columns of knowledge. In any case, regarding Mr. Clifford, I trust in his work. His past 'controversies' involve getting past government beaurocracy red tape on diving privileges, rights to treasure finds, and gossipy/snippy behavior with some of his compatriots, but NEVER falsification of his research. Organizations, on the other had, I don't trust. Like governments or individuals, they have hidden agendas. Whether it be museums selling off cultural treasures at private auctions or governments that claim all valuable finds of any kind must be surrendered to them for 'the good of the people', it is all BS to me... Gav, thanks for that unbroken thread-

31st July 2015, 08:35 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE CORROSION ON LEAD IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT ON SILVER SO AT LEAST THE OUTER COATING WITH THE MARKS AND SUCH ARE SILVER. IF LEAD IS IN THE CENTER THEN PERHAPS SOMEONE STOLE THE REAL SILVER INGOT AND MADE UP THIS ONE BACK IN THE DAY. IN SUCH A CASE PERHAPS THE FAKE INGOT COULD HAVE BEEN SECRETELY THROWN OVER THE SIDE WHEN SALVAGE WAS BEING DONE BY THE THIEF OR THIEVES SO THEY WOULD NOT BE FOUND OUT. THINGS OF THIS SORT HAVE HAPPEND SO IT IS A POSSIBILITY IF INDEED THERE IS LEAD PRESENT. A TREASURE HUNTER AND SCHOLAR OF ALL THINGS PIRATE AND TREASURE WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL. SHIPWRECKS AND PIRATES AAAARGH !

1st August 2015, 09:29 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,733	Thank you very much Mark!! and again well said on the notes on the integrity of Mr. Clifford's achievements and work. Someone of his stature and reputation is always going to face controversy, and as noted, the notorious Captain Kidd is almost ironically another case of apparently undeserved controversy. But then, these larger than life figures often become such via that very influence, and frankly, makes them far more interesting, actually exciting ! Often I do wish I could write such a book, but honestly the thing in its hard to write in such an organized fashion of ongoing adventures in history and research as I am still headlong into them!! That is why my posts on these pages often are so 'Tolstoyean' (?) as it suffices for me for the time. In essence, I am writing a book, but here Speaking of that , it seems that Barry, you have a flair for innovative and creative ideas, as you perfectly illustrate in your deductive explanation on the lead and silver corrosion theme. Wonderfully suggested, and mindful of the "Maltese Falcon" !!!! A perfect plot which reveals the drama and intrigue which actually did prevail in these fantastic times. Thank you so much guys! and Gav and Rick for the great links and input!! All the best, Jim

2nd August 2015, 12:26 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,263	oh, god - y'all got me going again. can't not think of this: how much does pirate corn cost? a buccaneer. i recalled my son telling me that one when he was three. he's in his 40's now. feel free to shoot me. with a lantaka.

2nd August 2015, 02:12 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,378	Yes, Jim . Private funding means Investors . This reminds me of the fellow that swore there was a freighter full of Platinum sunk off the Cape during the War Years . He was in the News this Spring . Uh oh ! No Platinum ... He had 'Private Funding' too . I hear those individuals are not at all happy . Rainmakers .

2nd August 2015, 05:45 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,733	Very true Rick, If you have followed the unbelievable 'Oak Island' uh, mysteries (?) this is a prime example of how far back these kinds of schemes go. Much of the now antiquated structuring and curious symbols etc are the remnants of earlier 'ventures' (usually syndicated) as well as Masonic oriented 'pranks', so the entire area is quite compromised as far as actual archaeological context. I find the 'lead ballast' claims by this organization rather questionable, and am still looking into more on the nature of these ingots. While I know most people do indeed believe what they want, and especially if its in the news or on TV, I choose to research further without express conclusions either way. The whole 'Captain Kidd' enterprise has really become a fascinating adventure in itself, and I have been reading through books on these 'ventures' which definitely do fall into the schemes category. Mr. Clifford's outstanding work on so many historically key wrecks to me does put him in my opinion in a quite different league. Actually I was quite surprised that he was NOT considered a proper archaeologist! Kronckew, that 'corny' joke was a hoot!! Reminds me of the goofy jokes my youngest grandson and I would come up with when he was about 8 (he's in the Marines now). They were true 'groaners' and we still laugh about 'em. To DASHIELL VANDOO , another idea for your plausible plot.....what if while this merry band of pirates, as the were looting the Capt Kidd ship in preparation to be scuttled......perhaps one stashed the ingot of silver in the hold with intents to return to claim it later? much in line with your other scenario. I' m not sure these guys had the means to fabricate fake lead bars in these places, nor the time or inclination to go to that trouble. Melting down lead for shot is a lot different that smelting an ingot of this size!