Unusual Hmong musket

ward · 19th June 2015, 01:59 AM

I am a dealer so I tend to have a few more items go thru my hands. I generally see a couple of these at most major shows in usa. I am not saying there are dozens at each show.

Jim McDougall · 19th June 2015, 02:51 AM

Cerjak, these are really intriguing guns as they have a curious 'ancient' kind of mystique about them, and the fact that they were still in use in the 60s and 70s seems amazing. These were remarkably little known of course until broad exposure to them with the Montagnard tribes during Viet Nam.

There actually is a reference to them in Stone under 'matchlock', in which #4 shown is a Tonkin example of these anachronistic guns. Apparently these had been in use from much earlier French Indo-China times and with Dutch, Portuguese and Chinese influences eventually the flintlock mechanism was also used.

In my opinion one of the foremost authorities on these and related weapons of these regions is Philip Tom, who wrote "Firearms and Artillery in Pre Colonial Viet Nam" for Seven Stars Trading Co. in 1999 (accessible online).
It seems it is suggested that guns similar to yours may be of origin in the Hue region, but I cannot say that for certain as more detail comparing elements would be required.

These are indeed hard to date accurately as they are composed of constantly recycled components which have been present and changed hands through many generations in these regions and with various groups.

Cerjak · 19th June 2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Cerjak, these are really intriguing guns as they have a curious 'ancient' kind of mystique about them, and the fact that they were still in use in the 60s and 70s seems amazing. These were remarkably little known of course until broad exposure to them with the Montagnard tribes during Viet Nam.

There actually is a reference to them in Stone under 'matchlock', in which #4 shown is a Tonkin example of these anachronistic guns. Apparently these had been in use from much earlier French Indo-China times and with Dutch, Portuguese and Chinese influences eventually the flintlock mechanism was also used.

In my opinion one of the foremost authorities on these and related weapons of these regions is Philip Tom, who wrote "Firearms and Artillery in Pre Colonial Viet Nam" for Seven Stars Trading Co. in 1999 (accessible online).
It seems it is suggested that guns similar to yours may be of origin in the Hue region, but I cannot say that for certain as more detail comparing elements would be required.

These are indeed hard to date accurately as they are composed of constantly recycled components which have been present and changed hands through many generations in these regions and with various groups.

Thank you Jim
I didn't saw it because I was looking for this particular "pistol grip" stock .
Best

Jean-Luc

ward · 19th June 2015, 05:58 PM

what I would be curious to see is the predecessor of this lock. Or was this completely a local form. I have never seen anything similar but I would not mind being surprised.

19th June 2015, 01:59 AM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I am a dealer so I tend to have a few more items go thru my hands. I generally see a couple of these at most major shows in usa. I am not saying there are dozens at each show.

19th June 2015, 02:51 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Cerjak, these are really intriguing guns as they have a curious 'ancient' kind of mystique about them, and the fact that they were still in use in the 60s and 70s seems amazing. These were remarkably little known of course until broad exposure to them with the Montagnard tribes during Viet Nam. There actually is a reference to them in Stone under 'matchlock', in which #4 shown is a Tonkin example of these anachronistic guns. Apparently these had been in use from much earlier French Indo-China times and with Dutch, Portuguese and Chinese influences eventually the flintlock mechanism was also used. In my opinion one of the foremost authorities on these and related weapons of these regions is Philip Tom, who wrote "Firearms and Artillery in Pre Colonial Viet Nam" for Seven Stars Trading Co. in 1999 (accessible online). It seems it is suggested that guns similar to yours may be of origin in the Hue region, but I cannot say that for certain as more detail comparing elements would be required. These are indeed hard to date accurately as they are composed of constantly recycled components which have been present and changed hands through many generations in these regions and with various groups.

19th June 2015, 05:58 PM	#4
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	what I would be curious to see is the predecessor of this lock. Or was this completely a local form. I have never seen anything similar but I would not mind being surprised.