Unusual Hmong musket

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 11:40 AM

more pic

BANDOOK · 17th June 2015, 11:48 AM

GREETINGS CERJAK
HERE IS MINE AND SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU ABOUT THEM,I FIND THEM VERY PRIMITIVE AND UNUSUAL,CHEERS

MONKEY GUNS HMONG TRIBE,NORTHERN LAOS AND VIETNAM
Mao tribe guns -- Antique Laos Mao or Hmung musket

Recovered from Northern Laos. Areas accessable only by helicopter or weeks of hiking. Used mostly for hunting. These were acquired by original owner while working for the CIA in Laos/Thailand. these guns were in use as late 70s in the opium growing areas of northeast Laos. Muskets similar to these were also used by the Montnard tribes in Western South Vietnam.
Octagonal barrel tapering to muzzle,1300 mm long and longer one is 1600 mm,bore approx. 30 caliber,attached to stock with 7-8 aluminium barrel bands,

BANDOOK · 17th June 2015, 11:56 AM

A PART OF THE MONKETS TAIL IS SEEN HERE WHICH IS LIKE A TALISMAN OBJECT FOR THE TRIBE AS MONKEY MEAT IS A DELICASY
I LIKE THE POWDER FLASK AND GOES WELL AND MAKES IT COMPLETE
BEST REGARDS RAJESH

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 03:54 PM

Hi Bandook

Thank you for you comment and pictures from your 2 nice exemplars.
This gun had been bring back by the father of the previous owner before the end of the French protectorate of Laos. I can see from the stock length that the barrel is in his original size .
I have already seen one similar short exemplar but they are definitely not common in this size
It has a nice wood patina who attest a real age for this piece ,my guess is late 19 th century or early 20 th century.
If you have the possibility it would be great to see some close pictures from your muskets ( lock and stock )
Best
CERJAK

Cerjak · 17th June 2015, 04:07 PM

more exemplar found from the net.

I ‘m astonish that they is not much literature about this type of musket. Even I did not find this musket in the George Cameron Stone's A Glossary .

ward · 17th June 2015, 05:01 PM

These are always interesting guns. You will find them with barrel bands made of brass, cooper, silver, and aluminum. They are not rifled. Some of the barrels will have Chinese manufacturing marks. I have a ammunition set that contains m16 bullets that were recovered to use in this gun, also Thai black powder caps that were used in the pan. These are still used in that part of the world I have been told. The detachable lock is fascinating in its simplicity. Dating these things are difficult. 1800-1990.

trenchwarfare · 18th June 2015, 03:33 AM

Very nice gun. I've not seen one this small. I have four, and the two smallest ones are about 120CM. They are both dainty, compared to the other two. I agree, it was made for a very small statured person. Even the pistol grip is small. The action, however is normal size. Information on these, is very hard to find. The only book reference I know of is in "Stone". Most have/had, a Monkey hide frizzen cover. One of mine has a priming flask, and one, has a complete compliment of "possibles". Including a silver priming flask, with silver chain. Thanks for posting.

17th June 2015, 11:40 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	more pic more pic Attached Images

17th June 2015, 11:48 AM	#2
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	BONJOUR CERJAK GREETINGS CERJAK HERE IS MINE AND SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU ABOUT THEM,I FIND THEM VERY PRIMITIVE AND UNUSUAL,CHEERS MONKEY GUNS HMONG TRIBE,NORTHERN LAOS AND VIETNAM Mao tribe guns -- Antique Laos Mao or Hmung musket Recovered from Northern Laos. Areas accessable only by helicopter or weeks of hiking. Used mostly for hunting. These were acquired by original owner while working for the CIA in Laos/Thailand. these guns were in use as late 70s in the opium growing areas of northeast Laos. Muskets similar to these were also used by the Montnard tribes in Western South Vietnam. Octagonal barrel tapering to muzzle,1300 mm long and longer one is 1600 mm,bore approx. 30 caliber,attached to stock with 7-8 aluminium barrel bands, Attached Images

17th June 2015, 11:56 AM	#3
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 624	SOME MORE INFO A PART OF THE MONKETS TAIL IS SEEN HERE WHICH IS LIKE A TALISMAN OBJECT FOR THE TRIBE AS MONKEY MEAT IS A DELICASY I LIKE THE POWDER FLASK AND GOES WELL AND MAKES IT COMPLETE BEST REGARDS RAJESH

17th June 2015, 04:07 PM	#5
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	other exemplar more exemplar found from the net. I ‘m astonish that they is not much literature about this type of musket. Even I did not find this musket in the George Cameron Stone's A Glossary . Attached Images

18th June 2015, 03:33 AM	#7
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Very nice gun. I've not seen one this small. I have four, and the two smallest ones are about 120CM. They are both dainty, compared to the other two. I agree, it was made for a very small statured person. Even the pistol grip is small. The action, however is normal size. Information on these, is very hard to find. The only book reference I know of is in "Stone". Most have/had, a Monkey hide frizzen cover. One of mine has a priming flask, and one, has a complete compliment of "possibles". Including a silver priming flask, with silver chain. Thanks for posting. Attached Images

17th June 2015, 03:54 PM	#4
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi Bandook Thank you for you comment and pictures from your 2 nice exemplars. This gun had been bring back by the father of the previous owner before the end of the French protectorate of Laos. I can see from the stock length that the barrel is in his original size . I have already seen one similar short exemplar but they are definitely not common in this size It has a nice wood patina who attest a real age for this piece ,my guess is late 19 th century or early 20 th century. If you have the possibility it would be great to see some close pictures from your muskets ( lock and stock ) Best CERJAK

17th June 2015, 05:01 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	These are always interesting guns. You will find them with barrel bands made of brass, cooper, silver, and aluminum. They are not rifled. Some of the barrels will have Chinese manufacturing marks. I have a ammunition set that contains m16 bullets that were recovered to use in this gun, also Thai black powder caps that were used in the pan. These are still used in that part of the world I have been told. The detachable lock is fascinating in its simplicity. Dating these things are difficult. 1800-1990.