Khanda Sword

ariel · 17th June 2015, 04:17 AM

According to Pant, one of the features distinguishing khanda fom patissa is the cylindrical unpadded grip on the latter ( the other being the small pommel bud, the presence of very long steel seatings, the uniform absence of reinforcing border plates [ unlike khanda, where most, but not all, had them] and of D-guard as well as drooping wing-shaped quillons).

Thus, this is a Khanda.

However, I wouldn't call it the " most effective, versatile sword ever developed", nor would I propose an altenative: saber-like blades might have differed in their effriciency because of different engineering approaches ( shamshir vs. shashka vs. kilij etc), but a straight-bladed weapons were reasonably uniform in their usage and efficiency. It was just a matter of weight, length, rigidity and quality of materials. Straightness did not allow for a lot of variability.
The spike, also per Pant, might have served also as a hand-rest, in addition to the two-handed grip.

Also, I am not exactly sure what is meant by " Hindu hilt" of the Tulwar? Tulwar was a Moghul-inspired weapon, very Muslim in origin ( if we ascribe religious meaning to the handles).
Ironically, the Khanda shown here has very tulwar-like pseudo-quillons under its hand guard. Obviously, a mix of both Hindu and Muslim traditions.

Jim McDougall · 17th June 2015, 04:49 AM

I am also unclear on what would be meant by 'Hindu hilt of the tulwar' though these distinctive hilt forms may certainly be regarded as in use by ethnic groups of that Faith, such as Rajputs. The term 'Hindu basket hilt' was originally applied with regard to the more developed khanda hilts of the Marathas, presumably owing to European influences. It has also been my understanding that 'khanda' is yet another dialectic term for sword, not otherwise specified. The term 'firangi' is commonly held to refer to these type hilts mounted with 'foreign' blades.

Regarding the 'pattisa' term, it is again my understanding that it is keyed toward the distinctive spatulate blade form.
My observations on the pattisa form blade on this example recognized that the sword itself remained technically 'khanda'.

As I noted, this example is 'anomalous' in that it is hybridized, referring to the features of tulwar hilts (diamond grip, the langet, and the vestigial quillons under the guard)......and the unusual 'pattisa' type blade.

I think the origins of the 'Indo-Persian' hilt of the tulwar would prove a great topic for discussion under another heading outside this thread. As far as I have known, the exact origins of this hilt form remain unclear, though obviously the Mughal examples definitely account for preponderance of examples.

BANDOOK · 18th June 2015, 12:17 PM

HI JIM
HERE IS MY MARATHA KHANDA AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED
MARATHA KANDA SORD-18 TH CENTURY
the cross-piece set with silver rosette,found in a battleground,overall length-1010
REGARDS RAJESH

Jim McDougall · 18th June 2015, 08:37 PM

Most attractive example Rajesh!
Actually while indeed a 'khanda' and the hilt of the 'form' of course used by the Marathas, I would consider this example again, far into Northwest Frontier regions, and most plausibly Rajput. The rosette seems an affectation favored in these regions. What is significant here is that the sabre blade appears to be a British M1788 light cavalry sabre blade in the cross section (typically regarded as 'Montmorency') used by James Wooley in Birmingham in his examples of the form. I have seen examples of shamshir hilt tulwars with these same blades and considered them to be from Sind regions, however Deccani examples are also known.

It is well known that British light cavalry blades were often mounted in Indian hilts as these M1788's are....however the most common instances were the M1796 light cavalry blades quite commonly used in tulwars.
In many accounts of cavalry actions in India by British officers note the astounding effectiveness of Indian horsemen with their sabres, and were horrified to discover they were using their own British blades!! honed to razor sharpness.

18th June 2015, 12:17 PM	#3
BANDOOK Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: AUCKLAND,NEW ZEALAND Posts: 627	MARATHA KHANDA HI JIM HERE IS MY MARATHA KHANDA AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED MARATHA KANDA SORD-18 TH CENTURY the cross-piece set with silver rosette,found in a battleground,overall length-1010 REGARDS RAJESH Attached Images

18th June 2015, 08:37 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Most attractive example Rajesh! Actually while indeed a 'khanda' and the hilt of the 'form' of course used by the Marathas, I would consider this example again, far into Northwest Frontier regions, and most plausibly Rajput. The rosette seems an affectation favored in these regions. What is significant here is that the sabre blade appears to be a British M1788 light cavalry sabre blade in the cross section (typically regarded as 'Montmorency') used by James Wooley in Birmingham in his examples of the form. I have seen examples of shamshir hilt tulwars with these same blades and considered them to be from Sind regions, however Deccani examples are also known. It is well known that British light cavalry blades were often mounted in Indian hilts as these M1788's are....however the most common instances were the M1796 light cavalry blades quite commonly used in tulwars. In many accounts of cavalry actions in India by British officers note the astounding effectiveness of Indian horsemen with their sabres, and were horrified to discover they were using their own British blades!! honed to razor sharpness. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 19th June 2015 at 06:25 AM.

17th June 2015, 04:17 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	According to Pant, one of the features distinguishing khanda fom patissa is the cylindrical unpadded grip on the latter ( the other being the small pommel bud, the presence of very long steel seatings, the uniform absence of reinforcing border plates [ unlike khanda, where most, but not all, had them] and of D-guard as well as drooping wing-shaped quillons). Thus, this is a Khanda. However, I wouldn't call it the " most effective, versatile sword ever developed", nor would I propose an altenative: saber-like blades might have differed in their effriciency because of different engineering approaches ( shamshir vs. shashka vs. kilij etc), but a straight-bladed weapons were reasonably uniform in their usage and efficiency. It was just a matter of weight, length, rigidity and quality of materials. Straightness did not allow for a lot of variability. The spike, also per Pant, might have served also as a hand-rest, in addition to the two-handed grip. Also, I am not exactly sure what is meant by " Hindu hilt" of the Tulwar? Tulwar was a Moghul-inspired weapon, very Muslim in origin ( if we ascribe religious meaning to the handles). Ironically, the Khanda shown here has very tulwar-like pseudo-quillons under its hand guard. Obviously, a mix of both Hindu and Muslim traditions.

17th June 2015, 04:49 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I am also unclear on what would be meant by 'Hindu hilt of the tulwar' though these distinctive hilt forms may certainly be regarded as in use by ethnic groups of that Faith, such as Rajputs. The term 'Hindu basket hilt' was originally applied with regard to the more developed khanda hilts of the Marathas, presumably owing to European influences. It has also been my understanding that 'khanda' is yet another dialectic term for sword, not otherwise specified. The term 'firangi' is commonly held to refer to these type hilts mounted with 'foreign' blades. Regarding the 'pattisa' term, it is again my understanding that it is keyed toward the distinctive spatulate blade form. My observations on the pattisa form blade on this example recognized that the sword itself remained technically 'khanda'. As I noted, this example is 'anomalous' in that it is hybridized, referring to the features of tulwar hilts (diamond grip, the langet, and the vestigial quillons under the guard)......and the unusual 'pattisa' type blade. I think the origins of the 'Indo-Persian' hilt of the tulwar would prove a great topic for discussion under another heading outside this thread. As far as I have known, the exact origins of this hilt form remain unclear, though obviously the Mughal examples definitely account for preponderance of examples.